I'm not a Pats fan but i work with enormous Steelers fans. They seem to be in their little bubble of the Steel Curtain rules the world and refuse to admit the Pats are the best team ever. Argue all you want but every single "dynasty" Niners, Cowboys, Steelers, Packers all of them of the 60s 70s 80s and early 90s never dealt with the salary cap. The cowboys were the last in line and were able to stock up talent before the cap was instituted explaining the sudden drop...its a fact and the proof lies within the numbers as usual. Without a salary cap the team that spends the most will usually win in a game like football......such an entire team game, not like baseball where one great picther can more or less be on and win a game, if the line doesnt black, quarterback cant throw, recievers cant catch its all intertwined, anyone else have thoughts about justification for the best football team ever?

No.

Every era is different. The Colts/Browns/Packers dominated in a different era than the Steelers and 70's Dolphins and Cowboys, who dominated in a different era than that of the 49ers in the 80s, who dominiated in different era than the Cowboys of the 90s, who were also different than the Pats of today.

Apples to Oranges.

The Steelers of the 70s, despite what we say, are not relevant to today's game. The Pats of today, are not relevant to the Packer dynasties of the 60s.

They were ALL great. To choose one among them is simplifying the situation far too much. The Pats are great in this era. Tomorrow or years from now, it will be someone else.

The Salary Cap era is also quite young for the NFL, who is to say someone will not come along down the line and do even better? It is possible, because afterall...no one expected another dynasty then BAM, we have one again.

The best ever? No team is in my mind. The best of this era? For sure.

The Pats defensive player of the year is a hired gun and so is their offensive player of the year... don't make it seem like the Pats are completely grass roots here


Regardless, the Cowboys offense was tailored around three players, and all three were drafted by the 'boys... same as Larry Allen, Mark Stepnoski, Ken Norton (who was released when he got too expensive), Alvin Harper, George Teague among countless others... I will never agree that the Pats are the best dynasty ever

The "best team ever" is so hopelessly mired in subjectivity it isn't funny.

And that goes for Steeler fans as well.

Every team is subject to the era it plays in. Cap or no cap.

AND, even in a cap-less era..spending more does not always mean you win the most.

There were plenty of teams spending a lot of jack and getting nowhere.

I know the era's are different thats why you cant compare talent. But within the organizational aspect of things, the steelers, niners, packer all had to deal out too much money for the players to be on their teams, it was sorta like the yankees but football is a lot different. I will rephrase it to best team so far becasue you rright another team may come along but they may take the throne from the pats. I dunno if the salary cap would have had an impact on the other decades, but its still in my eyes the most tremendous achievment in football to this day, included with the abundance of talent in todays game to be able to do this with a cap and the amoun tof talent in the league is far superior in my eyes.

I think the salary cap would effect all eras the same.

Cap or no cap, teams have to deal with the rules of the league. Just because the Steelers and 49ers did well without a cap, and the Patriots do well with one doesn't really make for comparison.

It is all subjective, because the parameters are not correct.

The Pats are the dynasty of this era.

That is objective...look at the wins thus far.

The best ever? It cannot be done because the eras, styles of play, sizes of players, rules of the game, popular play calling methods, practice methods, equipment, replay, referees, AND the salary cap issues are DIFFERENT.

Apples to Oranges.

points well taken, i just cant imagine another team in football being able to do what the pats have done is all, really makes me think they are the best team in the most difficult era....

That remains to be seen, for the era is young.

They are the best so far though.

Best ever cannot be said with objectivity.

well onjectivity doesnt mean correctness...im a lions fan and approaching everything unbiased leads me to think pats are best ever

There is nothing wrong with forming an opinion on the subject....everyone does.

All I am saying is that it won't really hold any water because the comparions are moot because of differences between eras.

I would go so far as to say that you cannot compare todays players with those back then even if the salary cap issue was the same. The game is different and the players are so much bigger, stronger, and faster.

If the Cardinals win it all next year, they are the best of all time? No. Are they the best of next year? Yes.

i win just kidding, good talks but then how do you enshrine someone into the HOF when having people from different eras? Do you base it solely on the time they were playing or what they have accomplished in the era? If so, the game is increasing its difficulty...look at the progression of records its in direct correlation with talent IMO, so its justifiable to say the pats are the best ever...but you are 100% right the whole era thing is like a road block....its crazy how we weill never know

i think where youre wrong is saying the pats are the BEST TEAM ever... now if you want to say the coaching job that bill belichick has done, in this salary cap era, is the best ever, i think you have a legitimate argument.

But calling them the best team ever would mean they would beat the 60's packers, the 75 steelers, the 84 49ers, the 86 Bears, the 92 Cowboys.. the Pats are not as good as those teams.

Again, in my opinion, if you want to say they're the best coached team, etc, harder to win multiple championships in this era, thats fine, you have a definite winnable argument... but theres no way the pats are better than those above mentioned teams, so you cant say best team ever.. but thats just my opinion

I think it's a legit point to say you can't really compare teams from different era's. However what if the criteria was how they did compared to the teams in their same era? In other words was the gap beween the Steeler of the 70's compared to other teams of the era bigger than the gap between the Pats of today and the other teams of today?

i'll put the 89 niners or the 93 cowboys up against any team

well your in the same boat as me.....well same style boat on different water....im saying the pats are teh best based on my evidence (salary cap, progression of stats, amount of players,) you say all of the past "dynasties" are better....neithe ris wrong but tsunami wil have a fit since we are argueing for something different that i sthe same thing ....i think that last part deserved a razz

I do not see that much difference between the competition for the Steelers of the 70s and that of the Patriots today. All three of their Super Bowl victories were VERY close, and so were the four Steeler victories. As far as other teams being strong each year, the Packers, Steelers, Colts, Ravens, Jets, Vikings, Eagles, Rams, etc have been strong each year or for the majority of the past few years. In the 70's, the Raiders, Cowboys, Dolphins, and others were strong every year or the majority of the years.

I do not see a comparison to make a case for one era or one team over another here either.

Again, you have to rely on subjectivity, which is NOT a bad thing. It is fun to say who is the best and try to come up with criteria...but we MUST realize that it is just that...subjective and rather meaningless.

But still fun.

The game is not increasing in it's difficulty... back then offenses were slower and smaller but so were the defenses... they have since grown proportionally to each other... just because the game is faster now doesn't mean it's harder to play then it was back then...


And you have to compare era-to-era... you can't compare pitchers of the 20's with pitchers now because the ball was deader than it is now back then... just as in football you can't compare Joe Greene to Javon Kearse... that is how you can compare players from different eras... we can say that Babe Ruth was probably the best baseball player ever because nobody in his era was even close to him stats-wise...



*And this is post 666... fear me

We keep being told it's impossible to have a dynasty in the salary cap era. We keep being told that new teams win it every year.

Well...since the institution of the salary cap, the Pats were in three out of four super bowls, the Eagles have been at the top of the NFC for years, the Rams had a pretty good stretch, as did the Titans and Bucs.

What we are being told and what we are seeing seem to be two different things.