I know nothing about writing music, lyrics or otherwise. I'm sure there's some songs that are very very simple, not alot to them. And then there's other songs that you read/play and think, "whoa that's just genius."

So the question is:

Do you think PJ were hard to write or were they more simple in Ten and more complex with something like sleight of hand or grievance?

to me, a genious song writer is someone who can mix melody and lyric to form a strong emotional and clear and deep bond. The music matches the lyrics and vice versa. Eddie Vedder does this with more regularity than anyone ive ever seen in my short life.

a good song is never an easy song to write... even good songs i've written in 30 minutes that turned out great required a lot of thought, but songs can always get better so you feel like you are constantly rewriting even after you record em

that's a really good question. people may argue that songs are a complete open slate and nobody can say whether they should have melody or rhythm or any standard "song convention".

but we're talking about PJ, and their genre is rock-n-roll. to constantly come up with melodies? it's tough, for sure. people say you're born with talent, but i think it's just like anything else. Eddie has absorbed himself in music and studied it. he's experimented with it and grown as a writer. yeah, some of his early stuff was really amateur, but he stuck with it.

it's just like any job really. i'm a programmer, and i look at early stuff i wrote and it sucks and it's funny, but it's what i knew back then. if you listen to eddie's "Reggae Woman", yeah, it's kinda funny, but that helped him explore his creativity as a young writer.

i hate to trivialize it and say that it's just like any other job. but then again, to be GREAT at something, you have to pour your heart and sould into it. i think that's what ed does =) as for the band? aside from the rotating drum stool, the core songwriters are still there, and the fact that they've been together for 15 years certainly doesn't hurt =)

Theres a certain degree of structure that the earlier songs have that the newer songs don't. And I am not sure if Ed purposely got rid of it because it worked so well...hehe

Some songs on Ten and Vs have awesome structure to them as the middle album don't which makes me find them rather boring. Then with Yield and Binaural, they kind of (in a slightly different way) got it back together...Given to Fly, DTE, Light Years, Sleight of Hand...these are really good songs, of course thats the case for EVERY song but, ya know. I like Riot Act a lot, but in terms of complexity, i put it in the snore category or the, it'd be better if they spent 2-3 more weeks on it category.

Billy Corgan.

To me, lyrics=poetry set to appropriate melodic phrases.

One of the goals of poetry is to say as much as you can with as few words as you can.

Eddie Vedder does that in an amazing way...

bandaged hand in hand

first he was stabbed/then he was stripped/by faceless men

a cup in the middle of the sea

pours himself into uniform

like a book amongst the many on the shelf

My other two favorite songwriters/poets

John Lennon
Kurt Cobain

nothing to argue here.

song writing is song writing, complex or not, what it boils down to is it a good song?


listen to rush...or neil young....

some of the greatest songs are 3 chords and the beauty lies in the melody, the story, hell the rolling drums, theres so much that can make a song great, wether its changing time signatures...ie matt cameron

the key is to have variety, keep it interesting and unique at all times. pj does a nice job of it. they would be stale if they continued with ten and vs straight ahead rock. or whatever your opinion might be.

very well said, and i agree 100%

Well, from a technical viewpoint, not that hard.

But to create something with the emotional intensity as a Pearl Jam song, it's very hard. It dosn't matter how hard something is to play as long as long as it's a good song, and most PJ songs are just execllent - to have the sdongwriting talent that this band has is very rare.

Salvidor Dali couldn't teach you how to paint.

nirvana's a good example... very simple, but they are just genious, and such perfect songs, the talent it takes to make those simple chord progressions what they are is immense

Lyrics are tricky because a lot of the power of song lyrics (as opposed to straight poetry) come out of the way they are delivered. I don't think Nirvana songs have good lyrics for the most part but they are delivered with such passion it doesn't count. On the other hand Ani Difranco's lyrics are always amazing as poetry but a lot of times the songs are just boring. Tom Waits writes amazing stories, but can also get away with some nonsensical stuff because he is just able to make the words sound meaningful. Besides the delivery, where he is usually outstanding, Eddie can come up wtih great phrases and when he is on he is a great lyricist but he gets lazy a lot too and often times in his songs there are one or two awkward lines that can get in the way. Stone, Jeff, and Mike write terrible lyrics

i can't talk about Ed's or PJ's process of songwriting, but i can talk about my own process. during the awakening process i've been through for the last couple of years, which brought me back to writing songs, i soon realized it's not me the one who writes a song, the songs pretty much hover above and suddenly channel through me. sometimes i'm doing my laundry and a whole song, words and music, comes to life. sometimes i spend months collecting crumbs of phases that i write down on a daily basis, scattered around my songbook, then one day they come together and become the lyrics. sometimes it takes months before the melody comes to some lyrics. sometimes the melody comes to no words at all, i have to strive not to forget it, i've even resumed writing musical signs and all, roughly, not to forget a melody. actually i have some lost dogs already, melodies that came in a dream and were soon forgotten after waking up.

and, IMHO, i really can't see it as just another job, it's not like that for me. the day it became a job, i guess it would be time to quit. that's why i'm often concerned about the pressure we fans put on the guys (i'm convinced that they feel it, thoughts are energy directed towards them). if it's not a job to them (after 15 years it would be amazing, though i wouldn't judge them or anything if it has become a job, what do i know?), it's not really their fault if they have to strive to get an album done, music is a whinsical muse .

the other thing is the recording process, i've just experienced it for the first time seriously (actually, last saturday, sunday and monday...). the song that seems to be the easier one, just the proverbial three chords (tks Peeps for this word ), took a whole day to record, while the other with the wackiest tempo took just 30 minutes, guitar and vocals. go figure!

all i can say is, it's all about the music! and i've never been happier in my entire life.

just to share with you guys...