There. Watch. Listen. Then lick my f'n balls, haters.
None of PJ's other drummers -- and hardly any drummer on planet Earth -- can hold a candle to Matt Fucking Cameron.
Listen to those snare drops. Listen to those MONSTER rolls. Listen to the versatility, the precision, the power, the groove, the tight-as-shit style based around jazz/improv-based fluidity. That is Matt Cameron. And that is why anyone who has ever doubted him should sell all their PJ records, turn on alt.-radio and move back in with their Mom.
It's Matt Cameron's world. We're just living in it.
Suckas!
_________________ "Life's got nothing to do with killin' time."
Post subject: Re: To All The Delusional Matt C. Haters -- Watch This And Die!!
Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 2:46 pm
Of Counsel
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 1:14 am Posts: 37778 Location: OmaGOD!!! Gender: Male
I was pretty impressed by Jeff's performance. That song is all about the bass lines, and Jeff did an admirable job on a song made famous by maybe the best bass player ever.
_________________ Unfortunately, at the Dawning of the Age of Aquarius, the Flower Children jerked off and went back to sleep.
Post subject: Re: To All The Delusional Matt C. Haters -- Watch This And Die!!
Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 3:00 pm
Got Some
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2005 10:21 am Posts: 1909 Location: The Jungle
The first thing i said after watching that last night to my fellow PJ friend was...
"YOU COULD HEAR JEFF!!!!!"
you cant even say the poor guy is underappreciated or under-rated, because half the time you cant even hear that hes there
I say we start a petition to give Jeff a bass solo in the middle of Save You, instead of just the short lil repetition of the bass line... say, Polk Salad Annie ala Elvis 1972 style? (youtube it, Jerry Scheff plays some mean ass 30 second bass solos during 72)
_________________ I am the king of the Jungle, they call me Tigerman
Post subject: Re: To All The Delusional Matt C. Haters -- Watch This And Die!!
Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 3:11 pm
Unthought Known
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2007 10:41 pm Posts: 7563 Location: Calgary, AB Gender: Male
MadTIGERmaN wrote:
The first thing i said after watching that last night to my fellow PJ friend was...
"YOU COULD HEAR JEFF!!!!!"
you cant even say the poor guy is underappreciated or under-rated, because half the time you cant even hear that hes there
I say we start a petition to give Jeff a bass solo in the middle of Save You, instead of just the short lil repetition of the bass line... say, Polk Salad Annie ala Elvis 1972 style? (youtube it, Jerry Scheff plays some mean ass 30 second bass solos during 72)
I'll take a 10min bass solo over Matt's Even Flow solo anyday of the week.
_________________ Straight outta line
Quote:
For a vegetarian, Rents, you're a fuckin' EVIL shot!
There. Watch. Listen. Then lick my f'n balls, haters.
None of PJ's other drummers -- and hardly any drummer on planet Earth -- can hold a candle to Matt Fucking Cameron.
Listen to those snare drops. Listen to those MONSTER rolls. Listen to the versatility, the precision, the power, the groove, the tight-as-shit style based around jazz/improv-based fluidity. That is Matt Cameron. And that is why anyone who has ever doubted him should sell all their PJ records, turn on alt.-radio and move back in with their Mom.
It's Matt Cameron's world. We're just living in it.
Suckas!
Many drummers (including a particular former PJ drummer) could have sounded just as good or better. I used to play The Who songs 16 years ago in high school and I think we used to play that one, and I sounded pretty close to MC's performance.
If you're making a case that MC is the second son of god, then this video is not the convincer. He did a great job on the song. ...and lots of drummer could do the same.
I'd say you need to find another song to make a convincing argument.
I could put Dave vs Matt on SOLAT, EF, PORCH, Blood, even NFY, and that would be at least be judging "apples to apples" - and Dave would win, hands fucking down.
Put up a link to Severed Hand or something he actually DOES own! MC stands on his own two feet, particularly on his own songs. The early PJ stuff though, no way. (except Release and Black where I prefer MC)
(adjust your ears for the differences in audio/video quality)
dave is much tighter, bass drum is very tight and simple, and he slowly builds anticipation with the hihat - then it explodes after the first crash cymbal hit. Matt (aside from it coming out of Lukin) is just very un-tight on the bass drum, and the whole performance is very loose - not bad, just loose.
dave plays the crashes, and hihat dynamics, and travels around the kit more. matt plays it like a toy monkey set on medium - very basic. matt hits the crash cymbals like he's paying $50 everytime he hits one (meaning he isnt using the crashes on most of the song). he's also not using the hihat pedal.
...yeah, another score for dave. dave just knows his timing better on this song. also dave plays the snare and floor tom together right before "i am fuel", and matt just plays the snare, so the presence isnt there. also he barely plays any crashes. dave actually plays the crashes.
it's hard to see Dave at work on this song, but it just flows better IMHO. Matt isn't a very good "funk" player, so Porch suffers on the funky drumming. Matt's been getting better playing it in recent years, but still no where near where it used to be.
not bad for matt, but dave's just sounds better (to me). I'm not a fan of the tom solo that matt likes to add to this song. i think dave's version "flows". matt seems to like to stop stop songs then start up again. i think he used to do that stopping thing on EF too.
dave just had a much more dynamic performance. too many things to list. matt wasn't bad. he just wasn't particularly amazing or anything. matt was solid, but that's it. dave is all over his kit. he owns.
...and feel free to disagree with me. I know people who couldn't hear a significant difference between Dave and Jack, so I've heard it all. I'm coming at it as a drummer of 23 years who used to cover PJ stuff all the time.
And Matt fucking rocks as a drummer. I just don't think he was as good as Dave on the above songs - though I think he's better than Jack was.
There. Watch. Listen. Then lick my f'n balls, haters.
None of PJ's other drummers -- and hardly any drummer on planet Earth -- can hold a candle to Matt Fucking Cameron.
Listen to those snare drops. Listen to those MONSTER rolls. Listen to the versatility, the precision, the power, the groove, the tight-as-shit style based around jazz/improv-based fluidity. That is Matt Cameron. And that is why anyone who has ever doubted him should sell all their PJ records, turn on alt.-radio and move back in with their Mom.
It's Matt Cameron's world. We're just living in it.
Suckas!
Many drummers (including a particular former PJ drummer) could have sounded just as good or better. I used to play The Who songs 16 years ago in high school and I think we used to play that one, and I sounded pretty close to MC's performance.
If you're making a case that MC is the second son of god, then this video is not the convincer. He did a great job on the song. ...and lots of drummer could do the same.
I'd say you need to find another song to make a convincing argument.
I could put Dave vs Matt on SOLAT, EF, PORCH, Blood, even NFY, and that would be at least be judging "apples to apples" - and Dave would win, hands fucking down.
Put up a link to Severed Hand or something he actually DOES own! MC stands on his own two feet, particularly on his own songs. The early PJ stuff though, no way. (except Release and Black where I prefer MC)
(adjust your ears for the differences in audio/video quality)
dave is much tighter, bass drum is very tight and simple, and he slowly builds anticipation with the hihat - then it explodes after the first crash cymbal hit. Matt (aside from it coming out of Lukin) is just very un-tight on the bass drum, and the whole performance is very loose - not bad, just loose.
dave plays the crashes, and hihat dynamics, and travels around the kit more. matt plays it like a toy monkey set on medium - very basic. matt hits the crash cymbals like he's paying $50 everytime he hits one (meaning he isnt using the crashes on most of the song). he's also not using the hihat pedal.
...yeah, another score for dave. dave just knows his timing better on this song. also dave plays the snare and floor tom together right before "i am fuel", and matt just plays the snare, so the presence isnt there. also he barely plays any crashes. dave actually plays the crashes.
it's hard to see Dave at work on this song, but it just flows better IMHO. Matt isn't a very good "funk" player, so Porch suffers on the funky drumming. Matt's been getting better playing it in recent years, but still no where near where it used to be.
not bad for matt, but dave's just sounds better (to me). I'm not a fan of the tom solo that matt likes to add to this song. i think dave's version "flows". matt seems to like to stop stop songs then start up again. i think he used to do that stopping thing on EF too.
dave just had a much more dynamic performance. too many things to list. matt wasn't bad. he just wasn't particularly amazing or anything. matt was solid, but that's it. dave is all over his kit. he owns.
...and feel free to disagree with me. I know people who couldn't hear a significant difference between Dave and Jack, so I've heard it all. I'm coming at it as a drummer of 23 years who used to cover PJ stuff all the time.
And Matt fucking rocks as a drummer. I just don't think he was as good as Dave on the above songs - though I think he's better than Jack was.
...flame on!
does this mean you think Matt is better on everything else? You only gave examples where Dave is better. A little biased?
Post subject: Re: To All The Delusional Matt C. Haters -- Watch This And Die!!
Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 8:53 pm
Johnny Guitar
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2008 11:49 pm Posts: 260
WorldWithYourHeart wrote:
does this mean you think Matt is better on everything else? You only gave examples where Dave is better. A little biased?
Fair question. Not biased - only had 45 minutes to type earlier, as I was at work.
On Dave era songs, I prefer Dave on most everything, to a varying extent, with a couple of exceptions.
SONGS I PREFER DAVE GREATLY ON: Once Even Flow Why Go Jeremy Porch Deep SOLAT Breath Go Animal Glorified G WMA Blood Rats Leash Last Exit Spin The Black Circle NFY Tremor Christ
SONGS I PREFER DAVE, BUT I CAN ENJOY MATT A LITTLE ON: Alive Daughter (but I miss Dave's hihat fills and tight playing) Rearviewmirror Elderly Woman Whipping Corduroy Betterman Immortality Garden (RECENT VERSION ONLY)
SONGS I PREFER MATT ON: Black Release
Then when it comes to Jack's songs - I'm not going to go thru their whole catalog, but a number of Jack's songs need a whole different pacing than what Matt has been playing them.
EG: I Got Id is just too fast. It doesn't feel organic, like it used to.
Hail Hail is getting better in recent years, but Jack had a bit of a swing - less of a metronome like Matt.
Who You Are sounds pretty damn good now. I was standing right behind Matt (25' behind him actually) when they soundchecked at MSG1, and Matt is doing a good job on that! I was paying close attention, and had a great vantage point, and clear sound to hear.
Red Mosquito is pretty good too by Matt.
As we get into the Yield era stuff, Matt is relatively on-par with Jack's original performance (GTF being the only exclusion).
And then Matt's era begins. I still think he's been slacking on some of his own stuff too. Like LBC and Grievance, he used to play the tom parts live, and now live he's cut back for some reason.
Matt's a fucking phoenominal drummer. But the early stuff is owned by Dave. It's just frustrating to hear the early songs which I used to love no longer played they way I enjoy them for years. They're different songs now.
That said - I look forward to every new album to see what Matt is doing. I don't think we'd have Sleight Of Hand or Severed Hand without Matt, and those are just two of many great newer songs.
Post subject: Re: To All The Delusional Matt C. Haters -- Watch This And Die!!
Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 2:54 am
Force of Nature
Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2005 7:24 pm Posts: 357
cjmst3k wrote:
WorldWithYourHeart wrote:
does this mean you think Matt is better on everything else? You only gave examples where Dave is better. A little biased?
Fair question. Not biased - only had 45 minutes to type earlier, as I was at work.
On Dave era songs, I prefer Dave on most everything, to a varying extent, with a couple of exceptions.
SONGS I PREFER DAVE GREATLY ON: Once Even Flow Why Go Jeremy Porch Deep SOLAT Breath Go Animal Glorified G WMA Blood Rats Leash Last Exit Spin The Black Circle NFY Tremor Christ
SONGS I PREFER DAVE, BUT I CAN ENJOY MATT A LITTLE ON: Alive Daughter (but I miss Dave's hihat fills and tight playing) Rearviewmirror Elderly Woman Whipping Corduroy Betterman Immortality Garden (RECENT VERSION ONLY)
SONGS I PREFER MATT ON: Black Release
Then when it comes to Jack's songs - I'm not going to go thru their whole catalog, but a number of Jack's songs need a whole different pacing than what Matt has been playing them.
EG: I Got Id is just too fast. It doesn't feel organic, like it used to.
Hail Hail is getting better in recent years, but Jack had a bit of a swing - less of a metronome like Matt.
Who You Are sounds pretty damn good now. I was standing right behind Matt (25' behind him actually) when they soundchecked at MSG1, and Matt is doing a good job on that! I was paying close attention, and had a great vantage point, and clear sound to hear.
Red Mosquito is pretty good too by Matt.
As we get into the Yield era stuff, Matt is relatively on-par with Jack's original performance (GTF being the only exclusion).
And then Matt's era begins. I still think he's been slacking on some of his own stuff too. Like LBC and Grievance, he used to play the tom parts live, and now live he's cut back for some reason.
Matt's a fucking phoenominal drummer. But the early stuff is owned by Dave. It's just frustrating to hear the early songs which I used to love no longer played they way I enjoy them for years. They're different songs now.
That said - I look forward to every new album to see what Matt is doing. I don't think we'd have Sleight Of Hand or Severed Hand without Matt, and those are just two of many great newer songs.
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