Post subject: What current MLB players are locks for the Hall Of Fame?
Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 3:58 am
Yeah Yeah Yeah
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2007 1:35 pm Posts: 4407 Location: Philadelphia/Los Angeles Gender: Male
Been meaning to do this for awhile now. And I'm not talking about guys who if they keep going at the pace they're on now for their career, they'll surely get in, so with respect forget about guys like Johan Santana, Brandon Webb, Chase Utley, etc.
This is strictly guys who if they retired today, would they definitely be getting in the Hall. And I don't mean necessarily on the 1st ballot, but simply in. I just took a quick scan over every single roster.
No doubters: Randy Johnson Tom Glavine John Smoltz Chipper Jones Manny Ramirez Jim Thome Ken Griffey Jr Todd Helton Ivan Rodriguez Gary Sheffield Vladimir Guerrero Mariano Rivera Derek Jeter Alex Rodriguez Pedro Martinez Billy Wagner Frank Thomas Trevor Hoffman Greg Maddux Ichiro Suzuki
And while I was at it, I started jotting down a list of guys for whom I could see an argument being made, but even after (what's the max eligibility, like 10 years?) I'm just not sure they'd quite make it.
Iffy: David Ortiz Curt Schilling Jim Edmonds Garrett Anderson Jeff Kent Mike Mussina Andy Pettitte Bobby Abreu Carlos Delgado Troy Percival
Probably not surprisingly, the team with the most total names between both lists is the Yankees.
_________________ Be sound.
Last edited by Samwise on Wed Jul 30, 2008 4:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
Post subject: Re: What current MLB players are locks for the Hall Of Fame?
Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 4:03 am
Stone's Bitch
Joined: Sat May 10, 2008 2:47 am Posts: 2169 Location: W.MA Gender: Male
I would put Thome, Shef and Vlad in the iffy as well. I like Thome but I don't think he's made that big of an impact on the game. (I could be wrong).
I think Jeff Kent is a lock since he's broken every batting record there is for a 2B. But his defense might go against him for a few ballots but I think he'll eventually make it. EDIT: also see pjfan80's comment.
_________________ PJ: Albany 04-29-2003 / 2008- MSG, Hartford, Mansfield 06-24,25,27,28,30 / 2009- Philly 10-27,28,30,31 EV: 2008- Montreal Aug-09, 10; 2009- Albany Jun-08, 09(met Eddie after show, shook his hand. YEEEAAAA!!!!)
Last edited by LongRd. on Wed Jul 30, 2008 4:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
Post subject: Re: What current MLB players are locks for the Hall Of Fame?
Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 4:03 am
Interweb Celebrity
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 12:47 am Posts: 46000 Location: Reasonville
jeff kent's gotta be in, no?
_________________ No matter how dark the storm gets overhead They say someone's watching from the calm at the edge What about us when we're down here in it? We gotta watch our backs
Post subject: Re: What current MLB players are locks for the Hall Of Fame?
Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 4:19 am
Stone's Bitch
Joined: Sat May 10, 2008 2:47 am Posts: 2169 Location: W.MA Gender: Male
pearljamfan80 wrote:
LongRd. wrote:
pearljamfan80 wrote:
LongRd. wrote:
No doubt Curt Schilling is in.
Agreed.
A couple more Pedro and Piazza!
Piazza retired.
oh fuck, you're right.
I think Espn's Outside the Line did a story on him and mentioned his little feud with Clemens. How ironic it is that he's a locked in the Hall and Clemens is in the air.
_________________ PJ: Albany 04-29-2003 / 2008- MSG, Hartford, Mansfield 06-24,25,27,28,30 / 2009- Philly 10-27,28,30,31 EV: 2008- Montreal Aug-09, 10; 2009- Albany Jun-08, 09(met Eddie after show, shook his hand. YEEEAAAA!!!!)
Post subject: Re: What current MLB players are locks for the Hall Of Fame?
Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 4:48 am
Yeah Yeah Yeah
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2007 1:35 pm Posts: 4407 Location: Philadelphia/Los Angeles Gender: Male
Oh crap how the hell did I miss Pedro, somehow I totally glossed over him when looking over the Mets roster. Yea, he's possibly even a 1st balloter.
Curt Schilling, I've had this debate with quite a few people over the last few months, I'm just still not sure. Though I will go back and at least add him to the iffy pile. If it was predominately post-season, he's in no question. I think he's got the best winning % of any starter with at least 10 decisions of all time. But otherwise... 216-146 (.597), 3.46 ERA, 3116 K's, 1.137 WHIP. I don't know, definitely worthy of a good argument.
Jeff Kent, for one thing I think most baseball commentators will even tell you that Chase Utley will wind up going down as the greatest offensive 2B of all time. .289 AVG, 375 HR, 1502 RBI, .355 OBP. No question he'll reach 400 HR, but I'd say doubtful on 500. I don't know if I'm convinced.
Thome does have 526 HR, and if he can stay healthy for a little while longer, especially in the White Sox' park, I think 600 HR is potentially doable. And you gotta figure 600 HR gives you a lock.
And btw they mentioned on Sportscenter, if you combine his MLB time with his Japanese playing, Ichiro tonight got his 3000th professional hit.
_________________ Be sound.
Last edited by Samwise on Wed Jul 30, 2008 4:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
Post subject: Re: What current MLB players are locks for the Hall Of Fame?
Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 4:59 am
Yeah Yeah Yeah
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2007 1:35 pm Posts: 4407 Location: Philadelphia/Los Angeles Gender: Male
pearljamfan80 wrote:
Samwise wrote:
pearljamfan80 wrote:
Oh and Sam, you probably should have saved this thread for after the MLB tourney is over.
Bah, I hadn't even thought about that Oh well. It's a shame I hadn't known about that thing beforehand, it's a tourney I wouldn't mind playing.
Btw does anyone happen to know what is the official eligibility window for the Hall? 10 years? 15? I can't imagine it's as long as 20.
I actually think it is 20. Didn't Rose's "eligibility" end only recently?
Duh anytime a question comes up like this I always forget about Wikipedia
Based on the way this is written, I think it might be 15.
Quote:
If a player fails to be elected by the BBWAA within 20 years of his retirement from active play, he may be selected by the Veterans Committee, which now votes every odd-numbered year.
I mean considering there's the 5 year waiting period, so within 20 years of retirement would equal 15 years of eligibility. Though as the rules also go, if at any point a player gets less than 5% of the vote, he's taken off of any future ballots and he's kaput. Also though going by that, I suppose theoretically Rose might still have a chance.
Post subject: Re: What current MLB players are locks for the Hall Of Fame?
Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 8:46 am
King David The Wicked
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 4:31 pm Posts: 7610
Todd Helton over Kent is a gaff of epic proportions. My guess is in seven years, when Helton's eligible, I'll be arguing against his inclusion.
I'll do a little Keltner list on him:
Quote:
1. Was he ever regarded as the best player in baseball? Did anybody, while he was active, ever suggest that he was the best player in baseball?
No, and no, at least not anyone sane.
Quote:
2. Was he the best player on his team?
Yes, in 2000 and 2003-2005. He maybe had an argument for a few years in between.
Quote:
3. Was he the best player in baseball at his position? Was he the best player in the league at his position?
He might have been the best first baseman in baseball in 2003. Perhaps the NL's best in a couple other years (though I'd go with Bagwell every year save 02-03.
Quote:
4. Did he have an impact on a number of pennant races?
no.
Quote:
5. Was he a good enough player that he could continue to play regularly after passing his prime?
Undecided, though it isn't looking good.
Quote:
6. Is he the very best player in baseball history who is not in the Hall of Fame?
no.
Quote:
7. Are most players who have comparable career statistics in the Hall of Fame?
Yes and no. Most players didn't hit in Coors Field for half their career games.
Quote:
8. Do the player's numbers meet Hall of Fame standards?
See above, with the caveat that his counting stats don't meet HOF standards in his era.
Quote:
9. Is there any evidence to suggest that the player was significantly better or worse than is suggested by his statistics?
His enormous home/road split.
Quote:
10. Is he the best player at his position who is eligible for the Hall of Fame but not in?
hard to answer, but probably not. When he becomes eligible it will either be McGwire, Bagwell or Palmeiro.
Quote:
11. How many MVP-type seasons did he have? Did he ever win an MVP award? If not, how many times was he close?
He had a few, in 2000, 2001, 2003 and 2004. No. He finished in the top five in MVP voting just once (barring a miracle comeback).
Quote:
12. How many All-Star-type seasons did he have? How many All-Star games did he play in? Did most of the other players who played in this many go to the Hall of Fame?
seven AS type seasons, five appearances. Let's look among his peers. McGwire was a 12 time AS, and he likely won't get in, though for very different reasons. Palmeiro is the same story and made four AS games. Jason Giambi has made five and likely wouldn't get in even if he wasn't involved with the steroids controversy. Jeff Bagwell made four and should get in. Jim Thome made five and will be borderline. Andres Galarraga made five and he has no chance. Will Clark made six and he has no chance. So it's a mixed bag.
Quote:
13. If this man were the best player on his team, would it be likely that the team could win the pennant?
This is the worst question on the list, since it almost has to be answered yes. So yes.
Quote:
14. What impact did the player have on baseball history? Was he responsible for any rule changes? Did he introduce any new equipment? Did he change the game in any way?
essentially none. no, no, no.
Quote:
15. Did the player uphold the standards of sportsmanship and character that the Hall of Fame, in its written guidelines, instructs us to consider?
Definitely.
Overall, I think Will Clark is the most comparable guy to Helton, and the Thrill is nobody's idea of a Hall of Famer. I have very little doubt how Helton's HOF chances would be perceived if he never played home games in Denver. He simply wouldn't have any.
Post subject: Re: What current MLB players are locks for the Hall Of Fame?
Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:22 am
Yeah Yeah Yeah
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2007 1:35 pm Posts: 4407 Location: Philadelphia/Los Angeles Gender: Male
Okay that is one strange ass questionnaire to go by, I think. A good bit of those questions hardly anybody would be the answer to. Yes Helton does have a .69 point differential in home/away batting average, but even in the away is .294! That's pretty much perennial all-star level. And for HR, 190 to 120 isn't that huge of a difference considering how you're trying to make your point.
Billy Wagner, 384 currently 5th on all the all time Saves list, and he'll almost certainly at the very least overtake John Franco in 4th place with 424 of them. 2.38 ERA, 1.006 WHIP, 1062 K's in 816 IP. That sounds fairly convincing to me. Believe me I ain't thrilled at the notion, as a Phillies fan I think he's a crybaby prick, but the numbers don't lie.
And I already made the case for Thome, especially if he makes it to 600 HR, I don't see how in the hell you could possibly keep him out. And yea he strikes out a ton (though also did a little guy named Reggie), but even considering that his lifetime average is reasonably respectable at .280.
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 15 guests
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot post attachments in this forum