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 Post subject: Gay Marriage and Raising Children
PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 1:16 am 
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LittleWing wrote:
I have no problem with gays getting married. I do have a problem with them raising children.

Seriously? Why?

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 Post subject: Re: 2008 Presidential Election
PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 1:22 am 
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bart d. wrote:
LittleWing wrote:
I have no problem with gays getting married. I do have a problem with them raising children.

Seriously? Why?


To much psychological confusion at an early age. Too many issues for children to deal with. Social anxieties associated with school. Kids in these homes have significantly higher depression rates. Stuff like that.

Children need mommy's AND daddy's. They don't need two feminine males raising them. And they don't need to mommy's babying them.

There is a piece of me that says, "Hey, if they are two loving people, that's better than nothing." And in the case of foster kids and orphans, it is a better case.]

But it's not an ideal case. My social argument for it is about the same as an argument against single parent homes. Children need male father figures, and female mothers to grow up into well rounded adults.

And understand that I'm speaking in generalities here.

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 Post subject: Re: 2008 Presidential Election
PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 1:57 am 
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LittleWing wrote:
bart d. wrote:
LittleWing wrote:
I have no problem with gays getting married. I do have a problem with them raising children.

Seriously? Why?


To much psychological confusion at an early age. Too many issues for children to deal with. Social anxieties associated with school. Kids in these homes have significantly higher depression rates. Stuff like that.

Children need mommy's AND daddy's. They don't need two feminine males raising them. And they don't need to mommy's babying them.


In my experience, and I only know lesbian couples raising kids, there's always been at least one of the women who was not exactly the "motherly" type. :D

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 Post subject: Re: 2008 Presidential Election
PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 5:54 pm 
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Louie CK has a great response to LW's concern of children having social anxiety overload about gay marriage


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6p_aESYqtg


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 Post subject: Re: 2008 Presidential Election
PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 6:29 pm 
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LittleWing wrote:
But it's not an ideal case. My social argument for it is about the same as an argument against single parent homes. Children need male father figures, and female mothers to grow up into well rounded adults.


Is a single-parent household worse or better than a gay-parent household?

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 Post subject: Re: 2008 Presidential Election
PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 6:33 pm 
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B wrote:
LittleWing wrote:
But it's not an ideal case. My social argument for it is about the same as an argument against single parent homes. Children need male father figures, and female mothers to grow up into well rounded adults.


Is a single-parent household worse or better than a gay-parent household?


Making generalizations does not afford any correct answer to this question.

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 Post subject: Re: 2008 Presidential Election
PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 6:38 pm 
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LittleWing wrote:
B wrote:
LittleWing wrote:
But it's not an ideal case. My social argument for it is about the same as an argument against single parent homes. Children need male father figures, and female mothers to grow up into well rounded adults.


Is a single-parent household worse or better than a gay-parent household?


Making generalizations does not afford any correct answer to this question.


Image

Fair enough. It was off-topic anyhow.

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 Post subject: Re: 2008 Presidential Election
PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 7:06 pm 
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LittleWing wrote:
B wrote:
LittleWing wrote:
But it's not an ideal case. My social argument for it is about the same as an argument against single parent homes. Children need male father figures, and female mothers to grow up into well rounded adults.


Is a single-parent household worse or better than a gay-parent household?


Making generalizations does not afford any correct answer to this question.
A single parent household is less than ideal. The two parent, mother and father household should be the ideal promoted if any is promoted. I think anything else is less than the best possible scenario for kids. A single parent household or gay-parent household may be the best option left available and for this reason I support adoption for all types of families. But I can't fathom why anyone intentionally has kids with absolutely no goal or attempt at providing the ideal situation for the child.


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 Post subject: Re: 2008 Presidential Election
PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 4:10 am 
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B wrote:
LittleWing wrote:
But it's not an ideal case. My social argument for it is about the same as an argument against single parent homes. Children need male father figures, and female mothers to grow up into well rounded adults.


Is a single-parent household worse or better than a gay-parent household?


I was going to ask him this - then I realized that I didn't care what his answer was going to be.

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 Post subject: Re: 2008 Presidential Election
PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 5:41 am 
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Theresa wrote:
Louie CK has a great response to LW's concern of children having social anxiety overload about gay marriage


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6p_aESYqtg



Did anyone check this out as instructed??


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 Post subject: Re: 2008 Presidential Election
PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 12:56 pm 
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Theresa wrote:
Theresa wrote:
Louie CK has a great response to LW's concern of children having social anxiety overload about gay marriage


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6p_aESYqtg



Did anyone check this out as instructed??


:wave:

Good stuff. Thank you

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 Post subject: Re: 2008 Presidential Election
PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 1:26 pm 
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Theresa wrote:
Theresa wrote:
Louie CK has a great response to LW's concern of children having social anxiety overload about gay marriage


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6p_aESYqtg



Did anyone check this out as instructed??


:thumbsup: :thumbsup:


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 Post subject: Re: 2008 Presidential Election
PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 1:28 pm 
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tyler wrote:
LittleWing wrote:
B wrote:
LittleWing wrote:
But it's not an ideal case. My social argument for it is about the same as an argument against single parent homes. Children need male father figures, and female mothers to grow up into well rounded adults.


Is a single-parent household worse or better than a gay-parent household?


Making generalizations does not afford any correct answer to this question.
A single parent household is less than ideal. The two parent, mother and father household should be the ideal promoted if any is promoted. I think anything else is less than the best possible scenario for kids. A single parent household or gay-parent household may be the best option left available and for this reason I support adoption for all types of families. But I can't fathom why anyone intentionally has kids with absolutely no goal or attempt at providing the ideal situation for the child.

aren't roughly 60 percent of the "best possible scenario" marriages going up in flames?

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 Post subject: Re: 2008 Presidential Election
PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 1:34 pm 
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Theresa wrote:
Louie CK has a great response to LW's concern of children having social anxiety overload about gay marriage


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6p_aESYqtg

holy shit, that is hilarious.

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 Post subject: Re: 2008 Presidential Election
PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 1:47 pm 
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Quote:
Organizations that have officially supported adoption by same-sex couples include the American Psychological Association, the Child Welfare League of America, the American Bar Association, the American Psychiatric Association, the National Association of Social Workers, the North American Council on Adoptable Children, the American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Psychoanalytic Association, and the American Academy of Family Physicians.

The American Psychological Association states in its Resolution on Sexual Orientation, Parents, and Children (adopted July 2004):

"there is no scientific evidence that parenting effectiveness is related to parental sexual orientation: lesbian and gay parents are as likely as heterosexual parents to provide supportive and healthy environments for their children"; and "research has shown that the adjustment, development, and psychological well-being of children is unrelated to parental sexual orientation and that the children of lesbian and gay parents are as likely as those of heterosexual parents to flourish."

Similarly, Children's Development of Social Competence Across Family Types, a major report prepared by the Department of Justice (Canada) in July 2006 but not released by the government until forced to do so by a request under the Access to Information Act in May 2007, reaches this conclusion:

"The strongest conclusion that can be drawn from the empirical literature is that the vast majority of studies show that children living with two mothers and children living with a mother and father have the same levels of social competence. A few studies suggest that children with two lesbian mothers may have marginally better social competence than children in traditional nuclear families, even fewer studies show the opposite, and most studies fail to find any differences. The very limited body of research on children with two gay fathers supports this same conclusion."


Quote:
Some opponents of adoption by same-sex couples question whether same-sex households provide children with adequate gender roles. The underlying sentiment is that, without both male and female role models, children may develop in such a way that they are unable to fulfill traditional gender roles in future heterosexual relationships.

Studies have consistently shown that children raised by lesbian mothers behave, for the most part, within normal sex stereotypes. Researchers have observed slightly relaxed boundaries in sex-typed play (dolls versus trucks) and in gender-stereotyped career aspirations among such children.

Although "many lone-parent families are functioning well," there is some evidence that children raised in single parent households "are likely to be less socially competent" than those raised in two-parent households due to economic difficulties and lack of emotional support for the single parent by a partner or social support by adults outside the family.This generalization has been used by many groups to oppose adoption by same-sex couples.

The argument that same-sex parents are unsuitable hinges on the assumption that children of single parent households suffer due to a lack of gender role models, whereas the cause may instead be a lack of parental care and supervision associated with single parent households. It is therefore not clear that single parent studies in any way reflect adversely the quality of parenting provided by same-sex couples, which, as a 2006 report by the Department of Justice (Canada) states, is "independent of the sexual orientation of parents."

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 Post subject: Re: 2008 Presidential Election
PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 2:14 pm 
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What's the link for that ceebs?

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 Post subject: Re: 2008 Presidential Election
PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 2:15 pm 
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dscans wrote:
What's the link for that ceebs?

my bad.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_parenting

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 Post subject: Re: 2008 Presidential Election
PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 3:14 pm 
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corduroy_blazer wrote:
tyler wrote:
LittleWing wrote:
B wrote:
LittleWing wrote:
But it's not an ideal case. My social argument for it is about the same as an argument against single parent homes. Children need male father figures, and female mothers to grow up into well rounded adults.


Is a single-parent household worse or better than a gay-parent household?


Making generalizations does not afford any correct answer to this question.
A single parent household is less than ideal. The two parent, mother and father household should be the ideal promoted if any is promoted. I think anything else is less than the best possible scenario for kids. A single parent household or gay-parent household may be the best option left available and for this reason I support adoption for all types of families. But I can't fathom why anyone intentionally has kids with absolutely no goal or attempt at providing the ideal situation for the child.

aren't roughly 60 percent of the "best possible scenario" marriages going up in flames?
And how is that any factor in creating and promoting the best possible scenario for children? Unless you think the government should play a role in supporting and promoting and incenting successful marriages.


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 Post subject: Re: 2008 Presidential Election
PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 3:16 pm 
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tyler wrote:
corduroy_blazer wrote:
tyler wrote:
LittleWing wrote:
B wrote:
LittleWing wrote:
But it's not an ideal case. My social argument for it is about the same as an argument against single parent homes. Children need male father figures, and female mothers to grow up into well rounded adults.


Is a single-parent household worse or better than a gay-parent household?


Making generalizations does not afford any correct answer to this question.
A single parent household is less than ideal. The two parent, mother and father household should be the ideal promoted if any is promoted. I think anything else is less than the best possible scenario for kids. A single parent household or gay-parent household may be the best option left available and for this reason I support adoption for all types of families. But I can't fathom why anyone intentionally has kids with absolutely no goal or attempt at providing the ideal situation for the child.

aren't roughly 60 percent of the "best possible scenario" marriages going up in flames?
And how is that any factor in creating and promoting the best possible scenario for children? Unless you think the government should play a role in supporting and promoting and incenting successful marriages.

my question was more this: how could this be dubbed the best possible scenario if whatever percent of the time kids have to experience a divorce?

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No matter how dark the storm gets overhead
They say someone's watching from the calm at the edge
What about us when we're down here in it?
We gotta watch our backs


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 Post subject: Re: 2008 Presidential Election
PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 3:19 pm 
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i can't find numbers of divorce with children, so my point stands still right now, but even before that, scientifically it doesn't seem that's the best possible scenario.

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No matter how dark the storm gets overhead
They say someone's watching from the calm at the edge
What about us when we're down here in it?
We gotta watch our backs


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