I'm going to have to observe a fetal pig dissection Wed. Do you think that dissections in the classroom should be required of students? In this technological age couldn't we just use computer software to observe dissections without using animals? Bear in mind this is just an entry level Biology I & II course. Not many students are planning on pursuing Biology further than what's required of them.

I've done a computer dissection before. It was pretty crap, I don't feel like I learnt anything.

I've done both. Computer animated dissections do not in any way compare to the level of learning you can get from doing the actual thing.

I do wonder why animal dissection would be necessary for an intro level course that is just a basic requirement.

Carve a turkey. You get the same experience and it smells much better.

--PunkDavid

i took biology in ninth grade and "we" dissected a fetal pig, after which we had a pig practicum where there were pig carcasses strewn about the lab with pins and little flags sticking in their organs for us to identify.

i refused to disect the fetal pig (and the worm, frog, and cow eye for that matter.) i refused to watch. instead, i read the biology textbook in the front of the room while my teacher gave a demonstration of how a pig's lungs work. (this involved a straw, a dead, chestless pig, some blowing, and some formaldehyde being shot into someone's eye.)

did i learn anything from this? aside from the fact that formaldehyde stings and looks like apple juice (which i probably already knew) no. would i have learned anything by actually doing the dissection? maybe, but only for the purposes of the test (which i did well on anyway.)

the year after i took biology, the school invested in a computer dissection program. i've looked at it, and it's not bad. i would have much rather done that and i probably would have learned as much as anyone playing with a scalpel.

I think I've definitely learned more from actual dissections than the computer, but that doens't mean I've learned enough to justify having done them. I don't know. We do them pretty often but that's in Zoology. I think in first year biology I just did one, a cane toad, which is a horrible pest so killing them is no loss anyway.

I've done a cow heart, a fetal pig and a sheep's eye. For someone with a really weak stomach, I handled them pretty well and I think that they were pretty educational.

That being said, I don't think they're at all necessary for the younger levels. Seniors biology in high school could use it because most people in those courses are seriously considering a career in the sciences. I'm not against it... but I don't think it's necessary.

I support their use in biology class.

I've dissected pigs, cats, frogs, etc, etc, etc...all the way up to gross human anatomy.

My education experience did not discriminate on species.

Computer models are inadequate.

I'm assuming if you had done the dissection, you would not have given much attention or put much effort in completing the dissection. If this is the case, of course you are not going to learn anything. I've seen it happen plenty of times.

So yeah, a computer program is great for those who refuse to participate in the real thing, at least they will be learning *something*.

However, a computer simulation will never come close to the educational opportunity a dissection can offer to a willing student.

Waste of time and resources for most people. Entry level biology? What's the point. Most people will never use this information at all.

We had to dissect frogs in 6th grade. I can't begin to tell you how useful that was

This will offend, but oh well, its necessary to say, GET A FUCKING GRIP PEOPLE, ITS LIFE, YES ITS A LITTLE DEAD PIG, SHUT THE FUCK UP AND LOOK AT IT FFS. Running around like a little girl and bitching about it doesnt earn you the label as A. a rebel, or B. humanitarian of the year.

thanks for your time

--this ones for the people who thinks its "icky"

I like your sig Maestro, my fav part of that song

Yeah, that needed to be said. What about the people that don't think it's icky but just see no point in it because they aren't going into that field in any way?

No one is looking for a label, although I think I have a pretty good one for you.

using the basis of some of the folks arguments here...


there was no need for me to take accounting, let alone accounting II

there was no need for me to take economics, let alone economics II

there was no need for me to take western civ, let alone history of vietnam

there was no need for me to take any math classes, oh yea, i got my bachelors without taking a math class when i transfered

I agree completely. There was no need for me to take many of the classes I had to take either. That art history class comes to mind.

That is the school's way of raping people for more cash in the name of a "well rounded" education.

I don't remember learning anything from the dissections I did in my first year of Bio. I just remember them being jokes. In AP we only do one dissection, a spiny dogfish, which is going to be revolting. But I suppose in the name of education it may be helpful to some degree, although I doubt I'll remember anything about it other than the fact that we're all going to stink of shark oil. I don't see why it's necessary for each student to do their own shark, in my case, as it would save a lot of time and probably be easier if we had a partner to do it with us. Plus, I don't know how we're going to fit 20 sharks in one room. But anyways, I've never seen a computer simulation so I have no basis for comparison. I do plan on having some sort of scientific career (not involving surgeries or anything, though), so this is as good a time as any to get over any gross reactions I may have to sights and smells of bodies.

One of creepiest experiences of my life was visiting my girlfriend (now wife) in her cadaver lab during graduate school. She spent 3 hours a day for an entire semester in a room with 6 dead people, splayed open. While I was there, one of her classmates gave me a tour of the organs inside the chest cavity. I held some guy's heart in my hand.

I couldn't eat chicken, pork or beef for weeks after that.

guess thats how she got used to you just laying there during the love making sessions eh

did you give mm my message?

Can we dissect godeatgod to find out what makes him so metal?

I'll see her on Thursday, and give her your message then.