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malice · **Posted:** Tue Oct 21, 2008 3:55 pm

God, how I wish.

Lysander · **Joined:** Fri May 16, 2008 2:48 am **Posts:** 1713

Absolutely not. A true atheist must "hammer at religion" each and every day.

malice · **Posted:** Tue Oct 21, 2008 4:02 pm

Lysander wrote:

Absolutely not. A true atheist must "hammer at religion" each and every day.

you know, I don't even mind (or care, whichever is more applicable in this instance) if someone wants to "hammer at religion" each and every day.
I do, however, have a problem with hammering at people for their religious beliefs each and every day.

There's a difference between having a problem with a religion and having a problem with a person or group of people for believing in that religion.

I don't think some people quite get that.

Lysander · **Joined:** Fri May 16, 2008 2:48 am **Posts:** 1713

malice wrote:

I don't think some people quite get that.

I agree.

denverapolis · **Posted:** Tue Oct 21, 2008 4:07 pm

this thread is full of win

washing machine · **Posted:** Tue Oct 21, 2008 4:08 pm

I think this thread is hilarious, and you have proven your point Mary.

Although, this is a News and Debate section of a message board. I don't see anything wrong with CB having a counter for every little teensy, tiny point that someone not of his personal belief system is trying to make. It's in the spirit of discussion. I'd much rather discuss it here with faceless people that I have no emotional attachment to than my friends or co-workers. Still, some of those threads seem to be shameless baiting.

tryinmorning · **Posted:** Tue Oct 21, 2008 4:15 pm

FWIW, I am for the non-discussion of religion.

But this is a forum so obviously there will be discussion involved. There is nothing that can be done about that here.

malice · **Posted:** Tue Oct 21, 2008 4:24 pm

washing machine wrote:

I think this thread is hilarious, and you have proven your point Mary.

Although, this is a News and Debate section of a message board. I don't see anything wrong with CB having a counter for every little teensy, tiny point that someone not of his personal belief system is trying to make. It's in the spirit of discussion. I'd much rather discuss it here with faceless people that I have no emotional attachment to than my friends or co-workers. Still, some of those threads seem to be shameless baiting.

You know, Reid, I have all number of problems with Catholicism - and all organized religion for that matter, but the idea of having continuous debates with everyone that I disagree with in order to show my contempt for said religions is not only exhausting to think about doing, but kind of ludicrous. Hypothetically, the more I'd argue with people about their beliefs and the practice of their religions, the less likely I'd be to sway any of their minds about what they believe.
Honestly, I'm not sure I understand the compulsion behind wanting to 'hammer away' at anyone's beliefs- I mean, hell, if I feel secure in what I believe (in the case of an atheist, that would be that all religion is bunk and God doesn't exist etc) then I really have nothing to prove to anyone but myself.

This is the essence of religious belief being a private matter - as in - practiced privately- your belief system is your own, you have delveloped it in whatever manner you were raised, and have read or come to conclusions on your own, therefore it is, "private"- Nothing anyone else tries to put across to you will likely change that for you (you in the general sense, not you- Reid, specifically) becasue it is 'private'- it exists in your own head and cannot forcefully be removed by anyone short of a brain surgeon that cuts that part of your brain out, I'd guess.

washing machine · **Posted:** Tue Oct 21, 2008 4:37 pm

Yeah Mary, I see what you are saying. People like Ceebs and I are clearly still forming our opinions and thinking out loud about what it means to hold a belief in this world, though. If it weren't for this forum, I never would have given Dawkins a look. Outside of this board, I've actually championed some of his points. Mainly that this country was not founded on Christian principles. I also have a better appreciation for scientific thinking, thanks in part to N&D.

It does get tiring when people (oh hell, I mean ceebs) take on this Dawkins "all people are atheists about thousands of gods in this world, some of us just go one god further" persona, though.

McParadigmatWork · **Joined:** Wed Sep 12, 2007 2:07 pm **Posts:** 1787

booooooooooooooooooooooooooorrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrring

corduroy_blazer · **Posted:** Tue Oct 21, 2008 4:44 pm

tryinmorning wrote:

FWIW, I am for the non-discussion of religion.

i am for the non-discussion of politics.

malice · **Posted:** Tue Oct 21, 2008 4:45 pm

corduroy_blazer wrote:

tryinmorning wrote:

FWIW, I am for the non-discussion of religion.

i am for the non-discussion of politics.

wrong thread, pal.

corduroy_blazer · **Posted:** Tue Oct 21, 2008 4:56 pm

malice wrote:

You know, Reid, I have all number of problems with Republicans - and all organized political parties for that matter, but the idea of having continuous debates with everyone that I disagree with in order to show my contempt for said Republicans is not only exhausting to think about doing, but kind of ludicrous. Hypothetically, the more I'd argue with people about their beliefs and the practice of their Republicanism, the less likely I'd be to sway any of their minds about what they believe.

Honestly, I'm not sure I understand the compulsion behind wanting to 'hammer away' at anyone's political beliefs- I mean, hell, if I feel secure in what I believe (in the case of a Democrat, that would be that Republicanism is bunk and doesn't work etc) then I really have nothing to prove to anyone but myself.

This is the essence of political belief being a private matter - as in - practiced privately- your belief system is your own, you have developed it in whatever manner you were raised, and have read or come to conclusions on your own, therefore it is, "private"- Nothing anyone else tries to put across to you will likely change that for you (you in the general sense, not you- Reid, specifically) because it is 'private'- it exists in your own head and cannot forcefully be removed by anyone short of a brain surgeon that cuts that part of your brain out, I'd guess.

how does that sound?

malice · **Posted:** Tue Oct 21, 2008 5:10 pm

corduroy_blazer wrote:

malice wrote:

You know, Reid, I have all number of problems with Republicans - and all organized political parties for that matter, but the idea of having continuous debates with everyone that I disagree with in order to show my contempt for said Republicans is not only exhausting to think about doing, but kind of ludicrous. Hypothetically, the more I'd argue with people about their beliefs and the practice of their Republicanism, the less likely I'd be to sway any of their minds about what they believe.

Honestly, I'm not sure I understand the compulsion behind wanting to 'hammer away' at anyone's political beliefs- I mean, hell, if I feel secure in what I believe (in the case of a Democrat, that would be that Republicanism is bunk and doesn't work etc) then I really have nothing to prove to anyone but myself.

This is the essence of political belief being a private matter - as in - practiced privately- your belief system is your own, you have developed it in whatever manner you were raised, and have read or come to conclusions on your own, therefore it is, "private"- Nothing anyone else tries to put across to you will likely change that for you (you in the general sense, not you- Reid, specifically) because it is 'private'- it exists in your own head and cannot forcefully be removed by anyone short of a brain surgeon that cuts that part of your brain out, I'd guess.

how does that sound?

It sounds like you're attempting to mix political beliefs with religious beliefs, in which case, you fail because Political beliefs do not include any specific worship rituals or prayers to a God, nor a desire to go to a self-determined heaven when one dies. Nor are they used in order to help a person live one more day with a fatal illness, the ability to recover from a catashrophic event in one's life, nor for the ability to make it through another day without drinking again- or name your own reason- religion is not politics no matter how you slice it.

They aren't used in the same way as religious beliefs, and you're well aware of that- but you find yourself in need of clever word play in order to try to point out some perceived flaw in my comment because it looks, on the surface like the two can be interchanged - they can't.

editing of posts to try to make some obtuse point is simple, and I suppose holds an appeal for people looking for some way to discredit each other- but it doesn't change the differences in their definitions.
try again, pls.

Sandler · **Posted:** Tue Oct 21, 2008 5:40 pm

malice wrote:

Political beliefs do not include any specific worship rituals or prayers to a God, nor a desire to go to a self-determined heaven when one dies. Nor are they used in order to help a person live one more day with a fatal illness, the ability to recover from a catashrophic event in one's life, nor for the ability to make it through another day without drinking again- or name your own reason- religion is not politics no matter how you slice it.

They aren't used in the same way as religious beliefs, and you're well aware of that- but you find yourself in need of clever word play in order to try to point out some perceived flaw in my comment because it looks, on the surface like the two can be interchanged - they can't.

This is excellent.

px · **Joined:** Wed Nov 30, 2005 4:38 am **Posts:** 18049

Quote:

can atheism be practiced privately?

Can one hide their light under a basket? No.

corduroy_blazer · **Posted:** Tue Oct 21, 2008 6:03 pm

malice wrote:

It sounds like you're attempting to mix political beliefs with religious beliefs, in which case, you fail because Political beliefs do not include any specific worship rituals or prayers to a God, nor a desire to go to a self-determined heaven when one dies. Nor are they used in order to help a person live one more day with a fatal illness, the ability to recover from a catashrophic event in one's life, nor for the ability to make it through another day without drinking again- or name your own reason- religion is not politics no matter how you slice it.

so, in sum, religious beliefs can be practiced privately because they are highly personal beliefs, but political beliefs are not as personal, so they are different. is this right?

some would likely agree that political beliefs are not quite as personal as religious beliefs, though it seems to me there are people as devoted to political causes as those devoted to religious causes, which would foul up this arrangement. but, even if i give you that religion is more personal than politics, still, i do not see how this answers my question, which is: even if religion and politics are different spectrums, they are beliefs. if one can be practiced privately, can not the other? if religion is off the map, why aren't political beliefs? merely because we're worried about offending people?

it seems to me one of the criticisms i have drawn is the constant talk of religion. this is not something i understand, as i see numerous threads on politics. why can we talk about one and not the other? why is it one conversation is had all the time, but when a person tries to bring up the other, he is seemingly lambasted? tell me that your efforts in speaking of politics on this board are mere wankery, and that you have had no intention of ever convincing someone of something, and i will gladly walk away from this argument, but i have a feeling you will not admit this.

bart d. · **Joined:** Fri Jun 03, 2005 1:32 am **Posts:** 17563

My efforts in speaking of politics on this board are mere wankery, and I have had no intention of ever convincing someone of something.

corduroy_blazer · **Posted:** Tue Oct 21, 2008 6:13 pm

nice try

McParadigmatWork · **Joined:** Wed Sep 12, 2007 2:07 pm **Posts:** 1787

px wrote:

Quote:

can atheism be practiced privately?

Can one hide their light under a basket? No.

can atheism be practiced privately?

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