Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2006 4:33 am Posts: 8422 Location: Berthier-sur-Mer Gender: Male
Ladies and gentlemen, hi.
I wanted to start a thread for us to discuss The Final Cut for at least a while but I wanted it to be really awesome, with lots of information, videos, interviews and tidbits but unfortunately, I had to cook supper.
But now here it is!!!! a requiem for the post war dream by roger waters
performed by pink floyd david gilmour nick mason roger waters with Michael Kamen – piano harmonium, conducting and arranging of the National Philharmonic Orchestra Andy Bown – hammond organ Ray Cooper – percussion Andy Newmark – drums on "Two Suns in the Sunset" Raphael Ravenscroft – tenor sax
Released 21 March 1983 (UK) 2 April 1983 (U.S.) Recorded July–December 1982 Length 43:27 (original album) 46:40 (2004 re-issue) Label Harvest, EMI (UK) Columbia, Capitol (U.S.) Producer Roger Waters, James Guthrie, Michael Kamen
Side one "The Post War Dream" – 3:02 "Your Possible Pasts" – 4:22 "One of the Few" – 1:12 "The Hero's Return" – 2:56 "The Gunner's Dream" – 5:07 "Paranoid Eyes" – 3:40
Side two "Get Your Filthy Hands Off My Desert" – 1:19 "The Fletcher Memorial Home" – 4:11 "Southampton Dock" – 2:13 "The Final Cut" – 4:46 "Not Now John" – 5:01 "Two Suns in the Sunset" – 5:14
2004 re-release "The Post War Dream" – 3:00 "Your Possible Pasts" – 4:26 "One of the Few" – 1:11 "When the Tigers Broke Free" – 3:16 "The Hero's Return" – 2:43 "The Gunner's Dream" – 5:18 "Paranoid Eyes" – 3:41 "Get Your Filthy Hands Off My Desert" – 1:17 "The Fletcher Memorial Home" – 4:12 "Southampton Dock" – 2:10 "The Final Cut" – 4:45 "Not Now John" – 4:56 "Two Suns in the Sunset" – 5:23
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2006 4:33 am Posts: 8422 Location: Berthier-sur-Mer Gender: Male
so i thought this album deserved its own thread because: 1) i really love it 2) i'm still not done with it - i'm still discovering what Waters was referring to in the lyrics, learning a bit about the Falklands war, the state in which England was at the time, how the sessions happened, and i'm appreciating the songwriting more with each listen. i bought it in Ontario when i was 12 or 13 and it was a big letdown for me at that time, which is understandable since it's no kids' stuff. 3a) it is a divisive record and i thought it would be interresting to hear why some people think it's a masterpiece while others say it's the worst Floyd album. 3b) i'm not sure it is fair to listen to TFC with Pink Floyd in mind - it might just put your focus at the wrong places. 4) as far as anti-war albums go, this is the cream of the crop.
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2006 4:33 am Posts: 8422 Location: Berthier-sur-Mer Gender: Male
The Post War Dream
tell me true tell me why was Jesus crucified was it for this that daddy died? was it for you? was it me? did i watch too much t.v.? is that a hint of accusation in your eyes? if it wasn't for the nips being so good at building ships the yards would still be open on the clyde and it can't be much fun for them beneath the rising sun with all their kids committing suicide
what have we done maggie what have we done what have we done to england
should we shout should we scream what happened to the post war dream? oh maggie maggie what have we done?
Joined: Wed Oct 27, 2004 12:03 am Posts: 18376 Location: outta space Gender: Male
i've heard final cut, and gunners dream but for the rest yeah. i was listening to when the tigers broke free the other night and thought i should look further, since the wall takes up 95% of my pink floyd listening time. that album is great, the kind of thing i hope to do someday. just so grandiose, passionate, very literary, life changing, honest, challenging, dynamic, with quite songs to kick ass one's and everything in between (i'm ambitious)
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Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 4:01 am Posts: 19477 Location: Brooklyn NY
underrated PF album
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Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2006 4:33 am Posts: 8422 Location: Berthier-sur-Mer Gender: Male
The Post War Dream is an honest way to open this album. Waters wanted to use Holphonics on TFC, which is - conceptually - an analog ancestor of the Qsound that he used on Amused To Death. i'd explain this to you but you wouldn't understand shit so i'll let wikipedia speak for me:
Quote:
Holophonics is a trademark for a specific form of sound recording that is based on the hypothesis that the auditory system acts as an interferometer. The sound characteristics of Holophonics are most clearly heard through headphones,though can be demonstrated to be effective with ordinary 2 channel stereo speakers. To optimize this effect, loudspeakers have also been specifically designed for reproducing Holophonic recordings.
Holophonics should not be confused with holophonic recording (or holophony), which is a system of sound recording over the surface of a sphere, or binaural recording, a recording technique invented in the 1880's that provides some localization of sound. Holophonics is an addendum to binaural recording, which alone are not sufficent to produce a Holophonic recording, and has been said to be unnecessary. The latter assertion is explained by the fact that the human ear does not lose localization capabilities if only one ear is functioning due to its usage of a reference beam. For this reason, Interferometry is central and unique to Holophonics. Despite considerable theoretical wrangling as to its mechanisms, the Holophonic effect is easily demonstrated and undeniable when experienced. Holophonics can validate clear left - right, front - back, and up - down localisation capabilities.
Holophonics was invented by Argentine Hugo Zuccarelli in 1980, during his studies at the Polytechnic of Milan, Italy. It, along with Zuccarelli, rose to fame in 1983 with the release of a recording entitled Zuccarelli Holophonics (The Matchbox Shaker) released in the UK by CBS which consisted entirely of short recordings of sound effects designed to show off the system. These included the shaking matchbox, haircut & blower, bees, balloon, plastic bag, birds, airplanes, fireworks, thunder, and racing cars. In its early years, Holophonics was highly sought after by major players in the entertainment industry including Michael Jackson, who used Holophonics on his album "Bad", Paul McCartney, and Richard Branson. It has been used in film soundtrack, popular music, television and themeparks, and has been featured by major media throughout the world.[1]
Zuccarelli posited that the human auditory system is a sound emitter, producing a reference sound that combines with incoming sound to form an interference pattern inside the ear. The nature of this pattern is sensitive to the direction of the incoming sound. According to the hypothesis, the cochlea detects and analyzes this pattern as if it were an acoustic hologram. The brain then interprets this data and infers the direction of the sound. An article from Zuccarelli presenting this theory was printed in the magazine New Scientist in 1983. This article was followed soon after by two letters casting doubt on Zuccarelli's theory and his scientific abilities.[2][3] Despite these theoretical challenges, Zuccarelli's Holophonics produced a unique quality of audio product that was sought after highly throughout the 80's and 90's.
Though a distinct process, Holophonics, like binaural recording, reproduces the interaural differences (arrival time and amplitude between the ears), as well as rudimentary HRTF (head-related transfer functions). These combine with Holophonics to add to the illusion that sounds produced in the membrane of a speaker emanate from specific directions. To produce digital holophonic binaural recordings, a mono source requires many HRTF channels combined.[citation needed]. The basilar membrane analyses many individual spectral components of a sonic environment, all processed in parallel by the brain.
thank you.
so we hear cars passing by on a wet road while "we" are sitting in a car on the side of the road, skimming through radio channels, with news speaking about what Waters had in mind while writing this album: the nuclear race, the Falklands conflict, the Japanese implication...
Quote:
"...a group of business men announced plans to build a nuclear fallout shelter at Peterborough in Cambridgeshire..." [radio tuning] "...three high court judges have cleared the way..." [radio tuning] "...It was announced today, that the replacement for the Atlantic Conveyor the container ship lost in the Falklands conflict would be built in Japan, a spokesman for..." [radio tuning] "...moving in. They say the third world countries, like Bolivia, which produce the drug are suffering from rising violence..."
an understated harmonium backs Waters voice, while he intones lyrics that set the stage for the album "was it for this that daddy died?". (anyone familiar with the background story of The Wall know about his father being killed in Anzio, Italy in the second world war; the rest of you can look it up.) when strings come in, it gets more personnal as he calls then-prime minister Margaret Thatcher "Maggie" - the despair and disillusion is palpable when he sings "what have we done? maggie what have you done? what have we done to England?" because, as i see it, England hadn't been engaged in such a pointless conflict in a long time. the grown-up Roger Waters was witnessing a PR exercise from the Conservatives involving death of hundreds and he felt betrayed by the nation for which his father gave his life. what really strikes me lyrically in this song is the familiarity of the "Maggie" diminutive which is somewhat bold and sexist in a weighted manner because Margaret Thatcher was really a fucking bitch. otherwise, i really, really like how the drum sounds - as always, Nick Mason is a minimalist but on this album, he really sounds like he hits the skins with all his might and as always, he hits them at the right place. i think this is my favorite Floyd album for the sound of the drums. here comes Gilmour - with a pick scrape! i don't know what to think of this performance of his - it's really odd for him to work in these overtones (in the bit between "what happened to the PWD" and "oh maggie..." but it works anyway. i like him when he's out of his comfort zone as in Dogs or One of my Turns. but his work on this one isn't one for the ages so i'll just delete this paragraph...
EDIT: oh and the outro - i don't know what instrument is doing this, maybe a trombone? it has always made me think that it was a wink to In My Life. but it's also an allusion to the title track.
The Final Cut, Meddle, and Animals are the only Floyd albums that still really hit home and that I regularly listen to.
The Gunner's Dream and 2 Suns are both deeply moving songs. Other than Not Now John, this album is flawless, and IMO considerably better and more honest than the Wall.
Such a shame they couldn't hold it together long enough to tour this album.
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2006 4:33 am Posts: 8422 Location: Berthier-sur-Mer Gender: Male
bart d. wrote:
The Postwar Dream is basically Sam Stone by John Prine with different lyrics.
that's what i read yesterday on the internets... so let's compare
the first part of TPWD does indeed sound like this one but there's something else in there - i mean, TPWD has 2 other musical/lyrical movements that are quite different from Sam Stone's.
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 8:46 am Posts: 8052 Location: Northern Virginia Gender: Male
Side B kicks ass (especially Not Now John), but I agree with the sentiment that this is essentially Roger Waters' first solo record. Has anyone heard the demos? I've got a crappy 128k rip, but they're interesting for what its worth.
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Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2006 8:48 pm Posts: 4552 Location: Ohio Gender: Male
You having my avatar really makes me dislike this thread right now. The Final Cut is hands down THE worst Pink Floyd album. Worse than the post-Waters albums. Worse than Obscured By Clouds. It's just really, really boring to me. The only song worth listening to is Not Now John. Pink Floyd is my favorite band, but this album really just sucks.
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Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 8:46 am Posts: 8052 Location: Northern Virginia Gender: Male
If anyone would like to hear the Final Cut demos, you can access them through this link which directs you to 320k mp3s from rapidshare. I found them on some blog.
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 6:50 pm Posts: 1663 Gender: Male
I've been slowly beginning to appreciate Pink Floyd. I've been picking up their albums in a fairly random order and so far Obscured By Clouds has been my favorite. Inspired by this thread I picked up The Final Cut and I have to say I’m enjoying it a lot. One of my barriers to fully appreciating Floyd has always been that I never really felt any emotion from the music but the anger, frustration, sadness whatever on this is raw and in your face. The Final Cut (song) absolutely floors me. Also the rarity of guitar solos makes you appreciate them all the more when they come along.
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