Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 10:53 pm Posts: 20537 Location: The City Of Trees
I've discussed this briefly in a few other threads, but I've been working on a little alternate history story that begins with Richard Nixon being elected in 1960, and after working on it over the holidays, I think I've gotten far enough that I can start to share the first part of it with you guys. I've gotten as far as 1978 right now, and my goal is to write the story all the way to the present (2009).
Hopefully, everyone here will enjoy it, and we can all learn a little more about history and how our current events came to be (and how they could have been much different).
So, how does Nixon win in 1960? I think the easiest way, by far, is to have JFK choose someone else other than LBJ as his running mate, who was invaluable in getting the vote out in some critical states. The point of deviation in this timeline: JFK chooses Senator Henry Jackson of Washington as his running mate.
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After an exhaustive general election, which was notable for featuring the first televised presidential debates, Election Day had arrived. The election results first saw Kennedy with a commanding lead as he took most of New England and the South. One state that was too close to call right away, however, was New Jersey, an integral battleground state.
Nixon, meanwhile, closed the gap as results from the Midwest and West came in, dominating the regions for the most part, with exceptions such as Washington (Jackson’s home state). Most notably, Nixon won Texas, a state seen as critical to Democratic victory. However, two more states (Illinois and Minnesota) hung in the balance for quite some time. Results in New Jersey, Illinois, and Minnesota did not come in until well into the morning of the day after, and all three states would go for Nixon. Kennedy and the Democrats would attempt to challenge the results, but to no avail, and Kennedy would concede four days after the election.
Good idea. I hope this generates some interest; it should be fun.
I like most of the changes you made to the electoral map. I would keep Illinois as a Kennedy stronghold, as you will recall Chicago was run by the Democratic machine, with an assist from the mob. There were plenty of allegations of fraud in Illinois in '60, so I think it'd be fair to assume that regardless of his running mate, Daley and Co. were going to deliver Illinois to Kennedy.
I'd take away a southern state or two in addition to Texas from Kennedy. But either way, the point is getting Nixon in, which you have done. So I'm curious where this will lead us.
_________________ "Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires." -- John Steinbeck
Post subject: Re: Alternate History: Nixon's Sixties
Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 6:32 pm
Administrator
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 10:53 pm Posts: 20537 Location: The City Of Trees
aprilfifth wrote:
Good idea. I hope this generates some interest; it should be fun.
I like most of the changes you made to the electoral map. I would keep Illinois as a Kennedy stronghold, as you will recall Chicago was run by the Democratic machine, with an assist from the mob. There were plenty of allegations of fraud in Illinois in '60, so I think it'd be fair to assume that regardless of his running mate, Daley and Co. were going to deliver Illinois to Kennedy.
I'd take away a southern state or two in addition to Texas from Kennedy. But either way, the point is getting Nixon in, which you have done. So I'm curious where this will lead us.
There wasn't any mathematical way I could give Nixon the election without Illinois and still give WA to Kennedy (due to favorite son Jackson on the ticket). The difference was only 9000 votes, so with a slightly less than enthusiastic Kennedy campaign, I could see a reasonable flip.
Well that certainly is the easiest way to do it, after trying to figure it out for myself. It isn't out of the realm of possibility that Kennedy could have lost the entire south, though without LBJ, there may have been a southern 3rd party candidate who would have taken the votes from Nixon as well. (Byrd was not actually a candidate.)
But yeah, your way is the easiest to make it happen.
_________________ "Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires." -- John Steinbeck
Last edited by 4/5 on Mon Jan 12, 2009 6:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Post subject: Re: Alternate History: Nixon's Sixties
Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 6:43 pm
Former PJ Drummer
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 1:32 am Posts: 17563
You can't really even begin to predict what Nixon would've done had he been elected in '60. He was a complete opportunist and chameleon. Would he have halted the Bay of Pigs and prevented the Cuban Missile Crisis? Or would he have sent US troops in to back up the exiles and started WWIII? Would he have followed Ike's example and sent federal troops down to the South like Kennedy did? Or would he have ingratiated himself to conservative whites by trying to hold back the flood?
_________________
Quote:
The content of the video in this situation is irrelevant to the issue.
Bay of Pigs was Nixon's pet project. He set that up assuming that he would be the president when it was time to implement it. And I'm sure he wouldn't have done it halfway as Kennedy did.
_________________ "Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires." -- John Steinbeck
Post subject: Re: Alternate History: Nixon's Sixties
Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 6:55 pm
Of Counsel
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 1:14 am Posts: 37778 Location: OmaGOD!!! Gender: Male
I also balk at the idea of a Republican winning Texas in 1960, with or without Johnson. If you swing Missouri over to Nixon (and Hawaii was teh closest state in this election, not Illinois, which got more glory because of its size) can you make Texas Democratic and still haev Nixon win? After all, Missouri is the bellweather state, and only went with the loser once in teh past 100 years (before 2008).
I'm pretty sure if you swing Illinois, Missouri, and Hawaii to Nixon, he wins without Texas.
_________________ Unfortunately, at the Dawning of the Age of Aquarius, the Flower Children jerked off and went back to sleep.
Why? Kennedy barely won Texas with LBJ, and there were widespread allegations of fraud that LBJ's machine had stolen votes to put Kennedy over the top. Take LBJ away, I think it's very reasonable that Kennedy would have lost it.
_________________ "Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires." -- John Steinbeck
Post subject: Re: Alternate History: Nixon's Sixties
Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 7:11 pm
Of Counsel
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 1:14 am Posts: 37778 Location: OmaGOD!!! Gender: Male
aprilfifth wrote:
Why? Kennedy barely won Texas with LBJ, and there were widespread allegations of fraud that LBJ's machine had stolen votes to put Kennedy over the top. Take LBJ away, I think it's very reasonable that Kennedy would have lost it.
Kennedy won Texas by over 45,000 votes and 2 percentage points. That's competitive, but not "pushed over by fraud" close. The Texas Democratic Party was the dominant force in Texas politics at that time, and IMO, the only reason it was as close was because Kennedy was a Catholic. I doubt he would have lost many more votes if LBJ had not been on the ticket.
_________________ Unfortunately, at the Dawning of the Age of Aquarius, the Flower Children jerked off and went back to sleep.
Post subject: Re: Alternate History: Nixon's Sixties
Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 8:15 pm
Administrator
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 10:53 pm Posts: 20537 Location: The City Of Trees
bart d. wrote:
You can't really even begin to predict what Nixon would've done had he been elected in '60. He was a complete opportunist and chameleon. Would he have halted the Bay of Pigs and prevented the Cuban Missile Crisis? Or would he have sent US troops in to back up the exiles and started WWIII? Would he have followed Ike's example and sent federal troops down to the South like Kennedy did? Or would he have ingratiated himself to conservative whites by trying to hold back the flood?
I guess that's what's so fascinating about this possibility. They'll probably be plenty of criticisms with the timeline I put forward, but the truth is that any alternatives could be equally open to such criticism.
Post subject: Re: Alternate History: Nixon's Sixties
Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 9:49 pm
Administrator
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 10:53 pm Posts: 20537 Location: The City Of Trees
FYI: I will probably reveal each new section rather slowly, so I don't overshoot on material.
====
With victory ensued, it became quickly clear that Nixon would place a heavy emphasis on foreign policy in his administration. This wasn’t too surprising, as the most focused scene of the Cold War was the growing worry in Cuba, where Fulgencio Batista was overthrown by Fidel Castro. With Cuba a mere 60 miles away from the United States, Nixon would make it his primary goal to not allow Communism to knock on the doorstep of America.
Nixon was aware of a CIA-developed plan to overthrow the Castro regime, as he had been involved in discussions on how to handle the Cuban problem while in the Eisenhower administration. As President, Nixon continued to refine this operation through the early parts of 1961, and had hoped to execute it before year's end.
A deviation in plans came, however, on August 1961. In Berlin, East German officials decided to begin the construction of a barrier to prevent East Berliners to migrate to the West side. Nixon led the Western nations to immediately decry the wall, and demanded that reprisal would be imminent if the East Germans did not end construction.
The East German government ignored Nixon’s threats and construction of the Berlin Well began on August 27, 1961. In immediate response on September 4, Nixon implemented a naval blockade around Cuba, making a straight comparison to the wall in Berlin with the “wall” now around Cuba.
Soviet Premier Nikita Khrushchev immediately decried the blockade, terming it an “act of war” against the Cuban people. Nixon, who had experience in discussing matters with Khrushchev in such venues as the Kitchen Debate in 1959, immediately began to negotiate. The two leaders eventually reached a consensus in mid September 1961. The Cuban naval blockade would be reduced to a “quarantine”, in which food, medical supplies, and other humanitarian goods would be allowed to pass to the island, while military goods would not be allowed. In exchange for Soviet recognition of the quarantine, the US would recognize the East Germans’ rights to construct the Berlin Wall.
Reaction to Nixon’s actions was not met favorably. The loudest criticism came from foreign leaders in Western Europe, who feared that Nixon was willing to allow Berlin to fall to the Soviets in exchange for conquering Cuba. Back home, the Democratic response was to immediately paint the specter of World War III over Nixon, and even the conservative wing of the Republicans were critical that Nixon had been backed into a dangerous stalemate.
Nonetheless, throughout 1962 Nixon would continue to remain in intense discussions with the Soviets, and attempt to find a way to assure resolution of the Cuban problem without fear of retaliation from the USSR.
1962 also saw the retirement of two Supreme Court justices. Charles Evans Whittaker stepped down at the end of March due to “exhaustion”, and Felix Frankfurter had suffered a stroke in August. Nixon filled Whittaker’s spot with DC Appeals Court judge and Eisenhower appointee Warren E. Burger. When Burger’s confirmation came with little resistance, Nixon decided to choose a close acquaintance of Burger’s, Eighth Circuit judge Harry Blackmun.
Nixon’s unpopularity thanks to Cold War tensions showed in the 1962 midterm elections when the Democrats were able to increase their stranglehold on Congress, holding 63 Senate seats and increasing their House majority to about the same percentage. Even with tensions between its liberal northern members and its conservative Southerners, the Democrats were hopeful that their large numbers could force Nixon to make concessions in the 88th Congress.
Interesting way to circumvent the Cuban Missile Crisis. I guess if you had allowed Nixon to get to October '62 as it actually happened there wouldn't have ever been a November '62.
So do you want us to debate and disagree with parts of it, or just enjoy it for what it is?
Also, Cuba is 90 miles from Key West.
_________________ "Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires." -- John Steinbeck
Post subject: Re: Alternate History: Nixon's Sixties
Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:35 pm
Administrator
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 10:53 pm Posts: 20537 Location: The City Of Trees
aprilfifth wrote:
:thumbsup: So far so good.
Interesting way to circumvent the Cuban Missile Crisis. I guess if you had allowed Nixon to get to October '62 as it actually happened there wouldn't have ever been a November '62.
So do you want us to debate and disagree with parts of it, or just enjoy it for what it is?
Post subject: Re: Alternate History: Nixon's Sixties
Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 2:19 pm
Administrator
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 10:53 pm Posts: 20537 Location: The City Of Trees
As 1962 had featured the presence of the quarantine around Cuba, during this year Fidel Castro used it to successfully continue to motivate the Cuban people against the American forces. Unseen, however, was Castro’s increased worry that the Soviet Union was unwilling to assist Cuba against the US, and that worry steadily turned into desperation.
The tension came to loggerheads on December 4, 1962, near the southern city of Guantánamo. Just a few miles south in Guantánamo Bay, the United States still held a naval reserve left over from the Spanish-American War. The Guantánamo Bay Naval Base was also an epicenter for quarantine operations around the Cuban island. As a result, Cuban forces steadily began to fortify the city of Guantánamo and inch closer to the naval base, fearful that any Cuban invasion would start there.
On December 4, gunfire was exchanged between American and Cuban forces, resulting in casualties for both sides. Response from both the Nixon and Castro leadership was fierce, each blaming each other for instigating warfare, although it had been unclear as to which side fired first.
The next day, December 5, Soviet Premier Khrushchev warned the US against military action, and accused the US of “begging for battle” with the Cubans—with a tone that suggested that the Soviets would step up to protect Cuba.
Nixon immediately talked with Khrushchev throughout the early days of December. Nixon stated that given the previous Cuban aggression, that invasion was imminent. Khrushchev refused to accept this on first approach. As the days passed, Nixon would offer concessions to the USSR, doing whatever he could to prevent Soviet retribution.
In the meantime, Nixon also had to convince the Democratic Congress that a Cuban invasion would not result in expansion of warfare beyond Cuba, leading to a World War III that could feasibly go nuclear. Senate Majority Leader Johnson was adamant that if Nixon were to be given what he termed a “blank check” with authorization of military operations, he would have to make other concessions elsewhere.
After several days of talks (during which the world was as tense as could be), a breakthrough agreement was finally met between Nixon and Khrushchev on December 13. In exchange for full military allowances in Cuba, the US would make a series of military withdrawals across the globe. Chiefly, this dealt with the removal of missile bases in several locations near the Soviet bloc, primarily in central Europe and the Middle East. Nixon would also agree to sever diplomatic ties with the government of South Vietnam, led by the increasingly brutal regime of Ngo Dinh Diem.
After reporting the agreement to Lyndon Johnson and the Democratic foreign policy leadership, Congress agreed to authorize the Nixon administration for military conflict on December 15.
From the first one-- I'm a little curious why Nixon's Cuban invasion still hadn't taken place by August 1961, since that was his project that he was itching to conduct and the invasion took place in April '61 under a less than enthusiastic Kennedy. Also, a minor quibble, but if the US implemented a blockade around Cuba and called it a "blockade" I don't think that would allow Kruschev any face saving way of avoiding a war, since a blockade is an act of war.
Second one-- Very interesting. I'm curious if Castro is going to survive the invasion lol. It's a very interesting alternative, where the USA kind of relinquishes its role in Western Europe in exchange for a free hand in Latin America it seems like. I'm not quite sure how well that would go over with NATO. A transcript of a de Gualle-Nixon conversation would probably be hysterical for this lol.
Curious which way you're going to go on civil rights: Vote Nixon out in '64 and have the legislation happen with the new president, or have Nixon do it himself, giving the Democrats the south for the next generation or two. And my prediction is that you'll have LBJ as the next Democratic president, not Kennedy.
Good job so far.
_________________ "Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires." -- John Steinbeck
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