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 Post subject: brain difference between believers and non-believers
PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 4:35 pm 
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Brain Differences Found Between Believers In God And Non-believers

Believing in God can help block anxiety and minimize stress, according to new University of Toronto research that shows distinct brain differences between believers and non-believers.

In two studies led by Assistant Psychology Professor Michael Inzlicht, participants performed a Stroop task – a well-known test of cognitive control – while hooked up to electrodes that measured their brain activity.

Compared to non-believers, the religious participants showed significantly less activity in the anterior cingulate cortex (ACC), a portion of the brain that helps modify behavior by signaling when attention and control are needed, usually as a result of some anxiety-producing event like making a mistake. The stronger their religious zeal and the more they believed in God, the less their ACC fired in response to their own errors, and the fewer errors they made.

"You could think of this part of the brain like a cortical alarm bell that rings when an individual has just made a mistake or experiences uncertainty," says lead author Inzlicht, who teaches and conducts research at the University of Toronto Scarborough. "We found that religious people or even people who simply believe in the existence of God show significantly less brain activity in relation to their own errors. They're much less anxious and feel less stressed when they have made an error."

These correlations remained strong even after controlling for personality and cognitive ability, says Inzlicht, who also found that religious participants made fewer errors on the Stroop task than their non-believing counterparts.

Their findings show religious belief has a calming effect on its devotees, which makes them less likely to feel anxious about making errors or facing the unknown. But Inzlicht cautions that anxiety is a "double-edged sword" which is at times necessary and helpful.

"Obviously, anxiety can be negative because if you have too much, you're paralyzed with fear," he says. "However, it also serves a very useful function in that it alerts us when we're making mistakes. If you don't experience anxiety when you make an error, what impetus do you have to change or improve your behaviour so you don't make the same mistakes again and again?"

The paper, appearing online in Psychological Science, was co-authored by Dr. Ian McGregor at York University, and by Jacob Hirsh and Kyle Nash, doctoral candidates at the University of Toronto and York University, respectively.

--

It's has been argued for years that religious believers are happier than non-believers. Some studies have backed this claim up, too. But does it mean anything? People seemingly do not consciously believe in something merely because it makes them happy -- we believe because we think we have reason to (it'd make me happy to believe that Gisele Bundchen wants me, but I have no reasons to believe that, do I?).

But this study is interesting because it tells us WHY religious believers may be happier: in general, they contemplate their life, and their actions, less. Anyone with a skeptical outlook, any person of contemplation and reason who is constantly seeking knowledge and truth, will clearly think more, will take in more information, and thus be in more states of cognitive dissonance. There are less objective answers in the secular perspective. Compare that to what Ted Haggard, the former leader of the National Association of Evangelicals, once said: "We don't have to debate homosexuality. It's in the Bible!"

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 Post subject: Re: brain difference between believers and non-believers
PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 4:45 pm 
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corduroy_blazer wrote:
But this study is interesting because it tells us WHY religious believers may be happier: in general, they contemplate their life, and their actions, less. Anyone with a skeptical outlook, any person of contemplation and reason who is constantly seeking knowledge and truth, will clearly think more, will take in more information, and thus be in more states of cognitive dissonance.
I'm not sure how you came to this conclusion from the article you posted, especially the bolded bit. All it said basically was that believers worry less about their mistakes. It didn't say that non-believers were people of contemplation or reason. In fact the article even pointed out the downside of worrying too much about mistakes.

All I took from the article is that, and its something that's been reported before, is that the brain functions differently between believers and non-believers. This article just highlights the difference in how people treat mistakes and the amount of worrying they spend on their mistakes.


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 Post subject: Re: brain difference between believers and non-believers
PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 5:00 pm 
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This study could also point to a reason why religious belief has persisted so well: states of cognitive dissonance are not pleasing, or even healthy for us, and religious belief helps a person avoid these states.

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 Post subject: Re: brain difference between believers and non-believers
PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 5:03 pm 
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corduroy_blazer wrote:
This study could also point to a reason why religious belief has persisted so well: states of cognitive dissonance are not pleasing, or even healthy for us, and religious belief helps a person avoid these states.


So scientifically speaking.... "Ignorance is Bliss?"

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 Post subject: Re: brain difference between believers and non-believers
PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 5:14 pm 
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corduroy_blazer wrote:
This study could also point to a reason why religious belief has persisted so well: states of cognitive dissonance are not pleasing, or even healthy for us, and religious belief helps a person avoid these states.
It could equally show why non-believers have a hard time living happy lives, as they could be "paralyzed with fear". I think reading anything into the article other than what's in the article is all just personal bias. I'm just glad I'm not paralyzed by fear.


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 Post subject: Re: brain difference between believers and non-believers
PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 5:26 pm 
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Electromatic wrote:
corduroy_blazer wrote:
This study could also point to a reason why religious belief has persisted so well: states of cognitive dissonance are not pleasing, or even healthy for us, and religious belief helps a person avoid these states.


So scientifically speaking.... "Ignorance is Bliss?"

Thinking is hard.

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 Post subject: Re: brain difference between believers and non-believers
PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 5:29 pm 
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punkdavid wrote:
Electromatic wrote:
corduroy_blazer wrote:
This study could also point to a reason why religious belief has persisted so well: states of cognitive dissonance are not pleasing, or even healthy for us, and religious belief helps a person avoid these states.


So scientifically speaking.... "Ignorance is Bliss?"

Thinking is hard.
Wasting time agonizing over past mistakes is stupid. Letting your worry and guilt over those mistakes paralyze you with fear is even more stupid and leads to poor decision making. But I guess as long as your thinking long and hard about those poor decisions that everything is just peachy keen.


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 Post subject: Re: brain difference between believers and non-believers
PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 5:31 pm 
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tyler wrote:
corduroy_blazer wrote:
This study could also point to a reason why religious belief has persisted so well: states of cognitive dissonance are not pleasing, or even healthy for us, and religious belief helps a person avoid these states.
It could equally show why non-believers have a hard time living happy lives, as they could be "paralyzed with fear". I think reading anything into the article other than what's in the article is all just personal bias. I'm just glad I'm not paralyzed by fear.

that would not be an equal assessment, actually, because it's a complete guess and assumption that non-believers live their lives in fear. first give me reason to believe they do, then tell me -- fear of what?

my statement, on the other hand, suggests logically that:

a) religious belief seemingly helps suppress cognitive dissonance;
b) this is good for humans, at least at the individual level;
c) thus, it would seem at least one reason religious belief has persisted is because of its ability to keep us out of these states of discomfort and increased chance of physical illness .

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 Post subject: Re: brain difference between believers and non-believers
PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 5:33 pm 
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tyler wrote:
punkdavid wrote:
Electromatic wrote:
corduroy_blazer wrote:
This study could also point to a reason why religious belief has persisted so well: states of cognitive dissonance are not pleasing, or even healthy for us, and religious belief helps a person avoid these states.


So scientifically speaking.... "Ignorance is Bliss?"

Thinking is hard.
Wasting time agonizing over past mistakes is stupid. Letting your worry and guilt over those mistakes paralyze you with fear is even more stupid and leads to poor decision making. But I guess as long as your thinking long and hard about those poor decisions that everything is just peachy keen.

I don't worry much about past mistakes, but it has nothing to do with God. It has to do with me not wanting to feel like shit all the time. Besides, I have a wife to remind me of my past mistakes.

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 Post subject: Re: brain difference between believers and non-believers
PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 5:35 pm 
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corduroy_blazer wrote:
tyler wrote:
corduroy_blazer wrote:
This study could also point to a reason why religious belief has persisted so well: states of cognitive dissonance are not pleasing, or even healthy for us, and religious belief helps a person avoid these states.
It could equally show why non-believers have a hard time living happy lives, as they could be "paralyzed with fear". I think reading anything into the article other than what's in the article is all just personal bias. I'm just glad I'm not paralyzed by fear.

that would not be an equal assessment, actually, because it's a complete guess and assumption that non-believers live their lives in fear. first give me reason to believe they do, then tell me -- fear of what?

my statement, on the other hand, suggests logically that:

a) religious belief seemingly helps suppress cognitive dissonance;
b) this is good for humans, at least at the individual level;
c) thus, it would seem at least one reason religious belief has persisted is because of its ability to keep us out of these states of discomfort and increased chance of physical illness .

Seeking truth helps to alleviate cognitive dissonance, in my experience. Trying to be "right" brings a ton of cognitive dissonance.

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 Post subject: Re: brain difference between believers and non-believers
PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 6:00 pm 
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corduroy_blazer wrote:
my statement, on the other hand, suggests logically that:

a) religious belief seemingly helps suppress cognitive dissonance
I don't see this as a logical conclusion. All the article says was that believers spent less time worrying about their mistakes. It says nothing about ability to learn from past mistakes or if they do learn from past mistakes. The article says nothing about cognitive dissonance. I learn from my mistakes but I sure don't sorry about them, that just compounds a problem.

One interesting thing from the article that's being over looked is "more they believed in God, the less their ACC fired in response to their own errors, and the fewer errors they made". Sounds like believers are smarter. :P


Last edited by tyler on Fri Mar 06, 2009 7:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: brain difference between believers and non-believers
PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 6:22 pm 
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The next study they should do is to determine whether or not praying to Joe Pesci helps block anxiety and minimize stress.


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 Post subject: Re: brain difference between believers and non-believers
PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 6:54 pm 
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Now this is the kind of study I enjoy. :D

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 Post subject: Re: brain difference between believers and non-believers
PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 7:13 pm 
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i saw you posted this on facebook and had a laugh


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 Post subject: Re: brain difference between believers and non-believers
PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 8:04 pm 
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And then I saw her face

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 Post subject: Re: brain difference between believers and non-believers
PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 12:34 am 
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this was obvious

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 Post subject: Re: brain difference between believers and non-believers
PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 4:28 am 
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tyler wrote:
corduroy_blazer wrote:
my statement, on the other hand, suggests logically that:

a) religious belief seemingly helps suppress cognitive dissonance
I don't see this as a logical conclusion. All the article says was that believers spent less time worrying about their mistakes.


which means less states of cognitive dissonance.

tyler wrote:
One interesting thing from the article that's being over looked is "more they believed in God, the less their ACC fired in response to their own errors, and the fewer errors they made". Sounds like believers are smarter. :P


or are used to never questioning their beliefs and/or actions. the ACC is supposed to ring "when an individual has just made a mistake or experiences uncertainty."

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 Post subject: Re: brain difference between believers and non-believers
PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 11:41 am 
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Yes but believing in God can also make someone waste their fucking life away believing in something which doesn't exist.

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 Post subject: Re: brain difference between believers and non-believers
PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 6:20 pm 
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Hallucination wrote:
Yes but believing in God can also make someone waste their fucking life away believing in something which doesn't exist.


QFT

Their happiness is out of ignorance, which as we all know, can be bliss. Believe in a fairy tale and be obliviously optimistic = a fucking happy dumbass.

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 Post subject: Re: brain difference between believers and non-believers
PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 6:35 pm 
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Jammer91 wrote:
Their happiness is out of ignorance, which as we all know, can be bliss. Believe in a fairy tale and be obliviously optimistic = a fucking happy dumbass.

is that from a richard dawkins book?

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