Post subject: teaching evolution: a violation of church-state?
Posted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 4:04 pm
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if, as those like richard dawkins suggest, evolution disproves religion, or implies or leads to atheism, is not teaching evolution to kids a separation of church and state violation, since it is respecting non-religious belief over religious belief?
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Post subject: Re: teaching evolution: a violation of church-state?
Posted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 6:17 pm
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aprilfifth wrote:
No.
why? the schools are clearly teaching materials that support atheism over theism.
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Post subject: Re: teaching evolution: a violation of church-state?
Posted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 6:20 pm
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Buffalohed wrote:
Did you look at the logic in what you just wrote, c_b?
the establishment clause:
Quote:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof ...
or, as justice hugo black said:
Quote:
The "establishment of religion" clause of the First Amendment means at least this: Neither a state nor the federal government can set up a church. Neither can pass laws which aid one religion, aid all religions, or prefer one religion over another. Neither can force nor influence a person to go to or to remain away from church against his will or force him to profess a belief or disbelief in any religion. No person can be punished for entertaining or professing religious beliefs or disbeliefs, for church attendance or non-attendance. No tax in any amount, large or small, can be levied to support any religious activities or institutions, whatever they may be called, or whatever form they may adopt to teach or practice religion. Neither a state nor the Federal Government can, openly or secretly, participate in the affairs of any religious organizations or groups and vice versa. In the words of Jefferson, the clause against establishment of religion by law was intended to erect "a wall of separation between church and State."
wouldn't forcing kids to learn atheistic evolutionary theory respect atheism over theism? and prevent the free exercise of the child's religion by coercing his or her conscience?
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Post subject: Re: teaching evolution: a violation of church-state?
Posted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 8:09 pm
Yeah Yeah Yeah
Joined: Wed Dec 13, 2006 4:37 am Posts: 3610 Location: London, UK Gender: Female
corduroy_blazer wrote:
aprilfifth wrote:
No.
why? the schools are clearly teaching materials that support atheism over theism.
the schools are teaching science. the fact that science tends to discredict religion is the religion's problem, not science's or the schools.
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Ceebs, what does seperation of church and state mean?
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Post subject: Re: teaching evolution: a violation of church-state?
Posted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 8:41 pm
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aprilfifth wrote:
Ceebs, what does seperation of church and state mean?
see what i posted above. it's pretty clear.
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Post subject: Re: teaching evolution: a violation of church-state?
Posted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 8:41 pm
too drunk to moderate properly
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 7:19 pm Posts: 39068 Location: Chapel Hill, NC, USA Gender: Male
I think teaching facts violates my religious freedom!
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Post subject: Re: teaching evolution: a violation of church-state?
Posted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 8:43 pm
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this is, by the way, not my idea. it was proposed this past weekend by an eminent philosopher, michael ruse, at a conference full of secular humanists, atheists, skeptics, etc., and drew quite a response. of course i do not think it holds a bit of weight, but the question is, why doesn't it? pegasus is right on the money.
_________________ No matter how dark the storm gets overhead They say someone's watching from the calm at the edge What about us when we're down here in it? We gotta watch our backs
this is, by the way, not my idea. it was proposed this past weekend by an eminent philosopher, michael ruse, at a conference full of secular humanists, atheists, skeptics, etc., and drew quite a response. of course i do not think it holds a bit of weight, but the question is, why doesn't it? pegasus is right on the money.
So what is there to debate?
_________________ "Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires." -- John Steinbeck
Post subject: Re: teaching evolution: a violation of church-state?
Posted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 9:03 pm
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Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 1:32 am Posts: 17563
corduroy_blazer wrote:
this is, by the way, not my idea. it was proposed this past weekend by an eminent philosopher, michael ruse, at a conference full of secular humanists, atheists, skeptics, etc., and drew quite a response.
Guy doesn't sound all that fucking eminent to me.
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Post subject: Re: teaching evolution: a violation of church-state?
Posted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 9:07 pm
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Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2006 3:51 am Posts: 43609 Location: My city smells like Cheerios Gender: Male
bart d. wrote:
corduroy_blazer wrote:
this is, by the way, not my idea. it was proposed this past weekend by an eminent philosopher, michael ruse, at a conference full of secular humanists, atheists, skeptics, etc., and drew quite a response.
Guy doesn't sound all that fucking eminent to me.
his last name is "ruse."
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