Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 7:19 pm Posts: 39068 Location: Chapel Hill, NC, USA Gender: Male
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Atheist Exposed - Wed, Jul 13, 2005 The touching preface to a new blog, Atheist Exposed:
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A 48 year old government worker, 30 year closet atheist, is exposing to her friends, co-workers and clients her lack of belief in God. This is an experiment in humanity and tolerance. Hoping for a good outcome. Approaching in a non-confrontational manner. These are my friends, and I care about them. I hope they can accept me as I am. My goal is to help my Christian associates have the knowledge, that they know an atheist, and she's not a bad person.
Shirley works in a Texas prison, and decided to test her godlessness out on the inmates before confronting the chaplin. Apparently this experiment was inspired The God Who Wasn’t There cabal.
Go visit this dear woman and leave lots and lots of comments.
_________________ "Though some may think there should be a separation between art/music and politics, it should be reinforced that art can be a form of nonviolent protest." - e.v.
_________________ "Though some may think there should be a separation between art/music and politics, it should be reinforced that art can be a form of nonviolent protest." - e.v.
these are getting popular. they ran ads in canada and indianapolis. i've had people push me to start raising funds in nyc to do these ads but i see it as a waste of money considering the cost.
i will say, though, it is not easy coming out as an atheist. as much as you guys know what i believe or don't believe in, i am still a closet atheist in some regards.
_________________ No matter how dark the storm gets overhead They say someone's watching from the calm at the edge What about us when we're down here in it? We gotta watch our backs
these are getting popular. they ran ads in canada and indianapolis. i've had people push me to start raising funds in nyc to do these ads but i see it as a waste of money considering the cost.
i will say, though, it is not easy coming out as an atheist. as much as you guys know what i believe or don't believe in, i am still a closet atheist in some regards.
really? why the trepidation?
i'm agnostic, and really have no qualms about telling people my stance on such issues. i don't push, and never offer my views unsolicited, but when someone asks, i answer. i get lots of from self-satisfied religious types, but i've never found "coming out" as an agnostic to be a big deal.
these are getting popular. they ran ads in canada and indianapolis. i've had people push me to start raising funds in nyc to do these ads but i see it as a waste of money considering the cost.
i will say, though, it is not easy coming out as an atheist. as much as you guys know what i believe or don't believe in, i am still a closet atheist in some regards.
really? why the trepidation?
i'm agnostic, and really have no qualms about telling people my stance on such issues. i don't push, and never offer my views unsolicited, but when someone asks, i answer. i get lots of from self-satisfied religious types, but i've never found "coming out" as an agnostic to be a big deal.
these are getting popular. they ran ads in canada and indianapolis. i've had people push me to start raising funds in nyc to do these ads but i see it as a waste of money considering the cost.
i will say, though, it is not easy coming out as an atheist. as much as you guys know what i believe or don't believe in, i am still a closet atheist in some regards.
really? why the trepidation?
i'm agnostic, and really have no qualms about telling people my stance on such issues. i don't push, and never offer my views unsolicited, but when someone asks, i answer. i get lots of from self-satisfied religious types, but i've never found "coming out" as an agnostic to be a big deal.
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 12:47 am Posts: 46000 Location: Reasonville
thodoks wrote:
really? why the trepidation?
i should have added that it depends on the audience. my friends and other folks i meet in new york city are mostly fine with it. interested if anything. my roman catholic family is not. first time i told them i was an atheist i was told i was going to hell. so, yea.
thodoks wrote:
i've never found "coming out" as an agnostic to be a big deal.
agnosticism isn't such a defined stance as is atheism, even by the word itself. the word "atheist" is not a pleasant one for many religious people. agnostic is kinda soft.
may i ask why you're an agnostic?
_________________ No matter how dark the storm gets overhead They say someone's watching from the calm at the edge What about us when we're down here in it? We gotta watch our backs
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 12:47 am Posts: 46000 Location: Reasonville
tyler wrote:
Truly, how often does it come up anyways? Personal belief is like sexuality, pretty much private except with a select group of people.
why are religious or philosophical beliefs personal like sexuality?
_________________ No matter how dark the storm gets overhead They say someone's watching from the calm at the edge What about us when we're down here in it? We gotta watch our backs
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 12:47 am Posts: 46000 Location: Reasonville
why are religious and philosophical beliefs personal and political beliefs public? and how do you differentiate the two? are not political beliefs influenced by religion and philosophy?
_________________ No matter how dark the storm gets overhead They say someone's watching from the calm at the edge What about us when we're down here in it? We gotta watch our backs
Truly, how often does it come up anyways? Personal belief is like sexuality, pretty much private except with a select group of people.
why are religious or philosophical beliefs personal like sexuality?
Because they affect ho wyou live your life but they don't need to be tattooed on your forehead to go about living your life.
Do you walk into a room and go "I'm hetero"? I see no need to make any kind of pronouncement on either except where and when you feel comfortable and necessary. I'm quite sure you've jerked off to porn, to you feel the need to come out about this too? Hell, the subject of sex can come up and I can be pretty tight lipped about my preferences, depending on the audience and situation.
I think making these declarations is all about wanting "acceptance" rather than being happy with tolerance. Acceptance I'd like from my friends and family, but from work associates and strangers acceptance will do. I find no need to state preferences or hard wiring to gain tolerance.
hahaha. the first book i ever bought on the subject was bertrand russell's "why i'm not a christian." i'm agnostic.
i'm attracted to the idea that there is something greater out there, that we're more than the sum of our genetic code, that there is something more to our existence than mechanistic impulses and motivations. there may well be a reasonable biological explanation for our unique personalities, cognition, and free will. and if there isn't yet, i'd be willing to wager that such an explanation will be possible within my lifetime. but as it is, i find scientific explanations of our unique interdependence, cohesion, and free will lacking. i'm just not yet sold on the idea that this whole thing is the product of chance, be it cosmic, biological, or evolutionary. IMO, there's more going on than what necessarily meets the eye (or the nose, or the ears, or the brain).
i also think the claim that the existence of god can be either absolutely proven or absolutely disproven is an intellectual conceit. i recognize that it is every bit as likely that i'm wrong, that the notion of a larger being is utter nonsense. and that even if i'm right and there is a "god" or a larger cosmic being, it doesn't follow that we have the capacity to recognize or accurately assess such a being. unlike most, i'm completely comfortable with such ambiguity. i'm okay with not knowing whether god exists. why? because i don't derive my morals or philosophy from an external source. i don't need someone or something else to tell me how to live. the "god" i like to believe in isn't so narrow as to have a freaking list of things you can and can't do. and he's not so vindictive and arrogant as to cast aside otherwise good people for not adhering to said list. my "god" is more subtle and understanding than that. modern religious absolutes fall well short in describing a philosophy that i would adopt. the general notion of karma best describes my moral/philosophical/religious worldview. i find it very difficult to believe that "god," if after leading a life of leaving things in better shape than how i found them, of treating people with respect and empathy, of doing much more good than harm, of not harming anyone else in the course of bettering myself, would deem such contributions unsatisfactory because i didn't explicitly adhere to a rigid list of principles. frankly, i want no part of a "god" that would act so. my morality is grounded in concerns for humans and in improving the general condition of the fabric that binds humans together. i'm not willing to sacrifice those concerns for an antiquated (and, likely, fallacious) deference to a being that may or may not exist.
all that said, i could be convinced that god doesn't exist. in general, science and reason appeal to me more than naked faith.
in short, i'm agnostic and subscribe to a "live and let live" philosophy. i'm sympathetic to the notion that there is something bigger than us out there. but whatever it may be, no one person or organized religion possesses a monopoly on god's wisdom (or the ability to absolutely know whether god exists at all), let alone the capacity to understand and interact with said god. i'm comfortable with the ambiguity implicit in such a position because i don't think god (if it exists) is as narrow and vindictive as modern religious caricatures make him out to be. IMO, the notion of "karma" is a much more appealing, relevant, and appropriate worldview.
basically, i think there's something bigger than us going on out there, distrust organized religion, and am comfortable knowing we'll probably never definitively know the answer to whether god exists. so my default position is to accept his existence and instead focus on improving the basic human condition insofar as it's possible within my control.
but i could certainly be convinced one way or the other and make no authoritative claim to knowledge one way or the other.
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 12:47 am Posts: 46000 Location: Reasonville
tyler wrote:
corduroy_blazer wrote:
tyler wrote:
Truly, how often does it come up anyways? Personal belief is like sexuality, pretty much private except with a select group of people.
why are religious or philosophical beliefs personal like sexuality?
Because they affect ho wyou live your life but they don't need to be tattooed on your forehead to go about living your life.
Do you walk into a room and go "I'm hetero"? I see no need to make any kind of pronouncement on either except where and when you feel comfortable and necessary. I'm quite sure you've jerked off to porn, to you feel the need to come out about this too? Hell, the subject of sex can come up and I can be pretty tight lipped about my preferences, depending on the audience and situation.
I think making these declarations is all about wanting "acceptance" rather than being happy with tolerance. Acceptance I'd like from my friends and family, but from work associates and strangers acceptance will do. I find no need to state preferences or hard wiring to gain tolerance.
just because i don't go around blurting out "i'm an atheist!" that doesn't make my religious or philosophical beliefs private in nature. my religious or philosophical beliefs are open to scrutiny and reason just as much as my political beliefs.
_________________ No matter how dark the storm gets overhead They say someone's watching from the calm at the edge What about us when we're down here in it? We gotta watch our backs
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2007 4:48 pm Posts: 4320 Location: Philadelphia, PA
thodoks wrote:
hahaha. the first book i ever bought on the subject was bertrand russell's "why i'm not a christian." i'm agnostic.
I used to live in Missouri. I've quoted from Bertrand Russell, that essay in particular, quite a bit. I'm curious about the distinction between being an agnostic and being an atheist. I'm not sure that they aren't the same thing. Bertrand Russell's take on the whole thing was that the arguments in favor of the existence of God do not stand up to scrutiny. The phenomenological ones were demolished by Kant who instead substituted metaphysical ideas. These ideas are no longer valid in a world in which asymmetry is a given. Russell felt that since there is no evidence that God exists, and that there is no convincing argument that God exists, He essentially doesn't exist in our universe. But, and even Dawkins states this in his books, if evidence were to be uncovered, then God becomes a part of our universe, and he would become a believer. Between c_b and thodoks, do your viewpoints actually disagree?
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 3:38 pm Posts: 20059 Gender: Male
i've never let my parents know anything about my beliefs except that i dont accept the bible on things like homosexuality etc and that i dont believe religion should be involved at all in politics
i probably won't ever talk to my mom about the fact that i'm agnostic; she wouldn't disown me or anything, but i see no reason to interject it into my relationship with her
i could probably talk about it with my dad but god doesn't really ever come up in conversations between us
_________________ stop light plays its part, so I would say you've got a part
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 12:47 am Posts: 46000 Location: Reasonville
this is off topic, but i am of the mindset that religion should be openly involved in politics. i think i'll make a thread about it.
_________________ No matter how dark the storm gets overhead They say someone's watching from the calm at the edge What about us when we're down here in it? We gotta watch our backs
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 5:51 am Posts: 17078 Location: TX
I feel sorry for people who don't even tell their immediate family their religious status.
On that note, do you guys think that my cousin's wedding at the Basilica of Notre Dame (University) would be a good time to announce to my extended family that I am a devout atheist?
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