This is something that I have discussed on other messageboards, made snide remarks about here, and generally have been thinking about over the past month.

So, what is the current state? It appears to be one of "Why bother?" Please, keep in mind that the views I express are my own and should not be construed as "facts" or "truth".

I am sure many of you reading this are not familiar with me. I have been a member here at RM for a long time, for this incarnation of the board I was the 20th person to register (currently 19th on the list) so I know my way around the the Trading Post. In this day and age, five years is a lifetime in internet speak. I remember when you had to connect to the internet through your local university using Telnet....tell me I am not old, please! Enough of the history lesson from gramps here.

So, back to the topic at hand, the Trading Post. What IS a Trading Post? Well, in general it is a place where people gather and exchange things be it pelts, food, stories, or plastic discs that contain 1s and 0s that can be translated into music. It is a mutual exchange of something, each person has something to offer in exchange for something else. Would you say that this Trading Post is still based on the concept of "trading"? If not, why?

What about an offer for Blanks and Postage? Would that describe this area we call "Trading"? What is this concept of Blanks and Postage? Well, for those uninitiated or have forgotten, it means mailing blank discs (CD or DVD) to the person making the offer and including a Self Addressed Stamped Envelope so that the person making the offer can burn your desired show(s) and then ship the discs back to you with minimal overall effort to the person making the offer. Keep in mind, the person making the offer is doing YOU a favor. But what if I can't get to the post office to buy stamps, can I just PayPal you the money? No, then it wouldn't be a B&P, would it? Then it would be just a Blanks and Money which then puts the pressure on the person making the offer to get the postage. The same guy doing you a favor, is now doing you two favors or "solids" if you prefer that terminology. What if I am a poor college student and I can't even afford blank discs, then what? Well, you save your money. You recycle pop cans, you pick up change off the street, you buy stamps instead of beer, or you just wait until you do have the money.

And then there is the concept of the "Freebie". What is this magical thing you speak of? Well, a freebie is where someone does you a "major solid" and does ALL the work. They buy the discs, they buy the mailing supplies, and they buy the postage. All you have to do is sit on your ass (with the exception of getting up to check the mail) and wait for the package to arrive. Easy! But what happens if that's all you ever get? There's nothing wrong with getting something for free, is there? Sure there is, it is taking advantage of someone else. It's all fine and good to take someone up on their offer for a freebie once and a while, it's what friends do, but to begin begging for freebies or manipulating others so as to promote your own self gain....that's not in the spirit of trading or of any band that I know encouraged trading. Again, this is the Trading Post, not the Freebie Post.

What about the internet? Why should I bother to do all that stuff like buy discs and postage when I can just download a show. It's the 21st century, EVERYTHING should be available at my fingertips within a week of the event. Huh, did I tape it? No I didn't tape it, I live in Idaho. Who cares where I live, I just want the link to the (insert show here). That doesn't sound like trading. I mean, you are asking for something but you aren't offering anything. If I post a link to a torrent of a show, what do I get in "trade"? A pat on the back? Only if I am the first to post a link. Believe it or not, there is an "underground" of people that DON'T USE THE INTERNET. Seriously, there are people that still only communicate by writing letters. And even some of those people that use the internet only use email to communicate with other people to set up trades, via the post office. There are actually people in the world that have the audacity to NOT post their recordings on the internet. How dare they! So, how does someone find these people? You....be careful....trade with them. Scary, isn't it. I have totally blown your mind.

Now, I hear you saying "What have you done for me (or the trading post, take your pick) lately?" I can honestly say....nothing. I dropped out, gave up, let go. I became apathetic, much like you and all your friends. I did, however, keep it in check. If I wanted something, I did a few things to make it happen.
1. Asked around to see if anyone had a copy. Offered to trade for it if they did have a copy. I didn't ask for a freebie or a link to download it.
2. I didn't ask for things that I had no business asking for in public ala Eddie Vedder shows on this forum.
3. I was respectful. I wasn't demanding about what I was looking for. If someone has it, I would like to get a copy. I am not entitled to it. The only person entitled to it is the person who taped it. For better or worse, it's theirs to do with as they please.

I'd like to see the Trading Post get back to it's roots. I want to trade with you and I hope you want to trade with me. Let's make it happen.

kp

Oops, I wasn't paying attention. What's going on again? Are there any links to EV solo shows in that post?

Is downloading a disease or something ?

I'm still looking for the following audio data files:

4-30-92
8-2-92
8-16-92
8-23-92
3-25-94

I can't help you with those. I gave all my old DATA DVDs away when I realized I never listened to them. Sorry.

*sigh* Sure do miss the old days. Ive tried a few different times of late to make offers, but they seem to go unreplied to, or if they reply, they just never send the discs. I, for one, know that great chunks of my collection have come from this board.

I gather that it tends toward the lack of community interaction. I mean, yes a B&P package can be as little as a post-it with the dates/data to be copied and a return envelope; but it is often a note, a thanx, a letter, a gift. The B&P is a step in the trading community relationship, and a lot can come of that; perhaps no more than certain request filled but by chance as much as a lasting friendship.

Mr. Simms: Standing O chap...







































and that's O for Ovation.

Anybody?

Hey Sullen,

Good thread.

I don't think there's any reason to get rid of the trading post. Snail Mail trading might be a ghost but If anything it's a place for us old-timers to stop by every once in a while and see some familiar internet faces. I still check in a few times a week and it's nice to see you guys do too.

I just don't post much anymore because I don't feel like I have much to contribute really.

I've pretty much lost interest in DVD authoring and I rarely listen to bootlegs that often. This thread does make me want to dig up a scorching 93/94/95 show. Audio of course.

I see no reason to get rid of it either, but as the title suggests, the current state is not what it used to be. I have some things in the oven that I plan to do some trading/B+Ps for in the near future. No one will probably want any of it, but I will try. It's good to see you Dan, it certainly has been a while. Someone dredged up that thread from 3 years ago about the B+P contest, talk about a blast from the past. I, too have very little interest in DVDs recently given the crazy amounts of HD material I have amassed and rarely watch. Check back, you might be interested in some of the stuffs I over up.

So do you think direct downloads and torrents have nearly killed off trading? Or is it due to too much long-term freebie-ing/B&Ping to thy heavens, thus creating a sense of entitlement amongst most of the newcomers? Seems to me the latter has been dominating this board for quite a while now (up until a few weeks ago, anyways). I.e., if there's somebody always willing to give it away for free, why should I bother trading?

Maybe trading will make a resurgence now?

I believe both have been a hindrance to physical media trading. You now have a large number of people with high speed internet throughout the world and hard drives become extremely large, large enough to hold full tours of DVD materials. Add to that media boxes that can be stream video from your computer to your TV, it encourages downloading which saves more money by avoiding the need to buy physical media or shipping supplies. I also agree with the issue of entitlement. The Trading Post shouldn't die just because any one person isn't giving away freebies to new folks. If your first experience is getting something free, I can see how those newcomers may be in doctrinated that freebie is the standard.

Nice first post, Mr. Sullen!!!

Points to the West.

By the way, you have a superfluous apostrophe up there.

They're not on my list, but my list doesn't include the Audio Archives. (well, it includes shows included in the AA, but not he AA proper)

Do you know if they're included in the AA? If so, I've got 'em...if not, nope.

It's true that when you give something away you remove its value.

I am also one who likes to do freebies.. I like the element of surprise about it (because these days it is not easy to get free things in most places). When someone asks for a b+p of a 1 or 2 disc show I will frequently just ask for their address and mail it to them. They are always surprised and always grateful. I do it in private, because it's nobody's business, and it decreases the public requests for freebies, which I don't like either. I have had a few people come back asking for more free things in private, and while I usually end up doing them, they are not as fun. I love the element of surprise.

I think that different parts of the trading process appeal to different people. Personally, I do prefer the interaction that comes with trading the old-fashioned way, through the mail, etc. But for other people it is just about the shows. They don't care much for the human contact they are focused on their collection or what have you. For them the downloading shows is the best method- you don't have to ask anyone anything, just click the link.

Surely the economy is also a factor in the decline of trading physical discs. With torrents you don't have to have supplies or money up front. Discs and mailers aren't as cheap as they used to be, postage rates keep rising, and they don't let you use cool tape on your packages anymore.

I would also like to see the trading post as active as it was a few years ago.. I don't know if it's due to nostalgia or something else. I say we give it a try. If nothing else, I can say that I have met some of my favorite people on earth from doing b+ps with them and I am very thankful for that.

i can relate to that.. if 'trading post' didn't exist, i never would've got to know some of the coolest people in the world, who are very dear to me..

kp

About my own slow-down in trading, I forgot to admit that I got lazy and when it seemed that everyone I traded with had exactly the same stuff I made only a weak effort to find new people to trade with or to find new stuff. I think this was partly because I already had so much that I wasn't watching and partly because other things in life were requiring more of my time but also it was the fear of the unknown (strangers) and getting burned one too many times on bad trades, etc. Not an excuse, just my perception.