Story here

this maybe could have gone in the obama thread, but since this is slightly different i figured a new thread would be good enough.

so obama, without knowing anything other than what was reported said the officers acted stupidly. here is what is known now (least what is being reported)

- two african americans are reported trying to break into a house through a side window
- police arrive and ask what is going on

from here things get a bit blurry.

the officer claims he asked for identification and wasnt given any. the accuser, a highly noted director at harvard, claims he did give id. the officer claims Gates became agitated and made several derogatory remarks about the officers mother.

both gates and obama are saying this is a result of being black in america, while the officer and his department superiors claim that it is standard protocol and that the officer is not racists by any means, and he happens to teach courses on racial profiling at the cadet (insert joke about making sure mass cops can racially profile properly)

it has also come to light that there was a report of an attempted break-in at the same address while the Professor was away on an extended vacation (i caught this as a blurb on one of the news channels)

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my personal thoughts on this

the president should have just shut his mouth until everything was investigated properly. i wonder, next time a white persons civil rights are broken by a african american cop, will he come out and say how stupid the guy is?

of course everyone hears how racists boston can be or has been, so its not that hard to believe something like this may have happened.

but also at the same time, i can see where someone becomes irrational because they cant get into their house and someone intrudes on the process. i remember distinctly saying without looking, no shit sherlock, to a pittsburgh city cop when car was stuck near the outgoing ft pitt bridge when i was told, youre going to have to move this car son.

without knowing everything, im willing to bet that its a bit of both. as i stated, i can see the professor getting pissed about his situation and he says some unruly things with out thinking, which then gets under the cops skin, and then its just a case of he said she said.

yeah, i don't think Obama should have said anything. I'm not making any judgments on the situation, and it was unfortunate no matter how you look at it, but if I were the guy, I'd be more curious who the hell was accusing me (Chris Matthews agrees with me on that).

i also saw that obama said, cmon, the guy is older and uses a cane, what kind of thread did he pose?


so does this mean obama is going to lift the edict that senior citizens will no longer have to wait in long lines at the airport and be scrutinized to extra security?

I am in total agreement with you on the fact Obama should have shut his mouth on this. And none of us should automatically jump to one side until more substantial facts, if any, come out. I really don't think it's that newsworthy, personally. Especially for a President to make a comment during a nationally televised news conference.

But the above quote is apples and oranges. Gates wasn't going to commandeer or shoe bomb anything at that point. I rarely post in this forum though, so perhaps some sarcasm is flying over my head right now.

nope, that's just peepslogic

We interviewed a few people close to the guy at work the other day (WBZ NewsRadio in Boston) and from what I gather, there are a few things being overlooked. He wasn't arrested until he successfully entered his house. Once inside he did produce both his drivers license and his harvard university ID. At that point, feeling he was insulted, he continued "mouthing off" to the cops. The cops then somehow convinced him to step outside of his house, where he was arrested. They couldn't arrest him inside his house, as the police didn't have any reason to enter his house at that point without his permission (which obviously he's not going to give). Now, the guy may have been an arrogant prick, and disrespectful to the cops who initially were only responding to a reported break in to his house. But by the time he had been arrested, he had proven who he was, and despite being an asshole and mouthing off, wasn't doing anything illegal. Yeah, he was a prick, but that's not against the law. I can see the cops by the end of it thinking "this guys a prick, let's fuck with him" which they really shouldn't be doing.

Also, peeps called these "boston cops". It should be noted that Cambridge is its own municipality and not part of Boston, and is not policed by the BPD.

But wouldnt that be totally explained by the fact he was arrested for disorderly conduct?

no, i believe obamas point is an older person who uses a cane shouldnt be viewed as a threat and should be treated with kid gloves. anyone who believes that is an idiot

Regardless of what Obama said, if the cops were in my house and I provided ID and they still wouldn't go away, I'd be pretty pissed too. Factor in that he's a successful black man living in an area with what I'm assuming is a lot of white folks, and I can imagine he'd be more pissed than mose. Also factor in that the guy just locked himself out of his house, which if anyone has ever done, is fucking frustrating as hell. Why did the cops have to fuck with an old black guy in his own house? Are they upset that he has a nicer house than they do and called them a few names? Aren't they trained to handle it without arresting someone in their own home, or after they lure him outside? WTF?

so youre inclined to believe that gates made no comments about the officers mother?

did you factor in that there was a reported breakin at the same house in the past few weeks? did you factor in that cops were doing what they were paid to do, which is investigate a called in potential crime?

I don't care if he said something about their mothers. They were paid to investigate. Gates provided them his ID (2 forms if I can believe reports) which should have ended the investigation. Case closed. If they can't take some name calling from an old guy in his own home, they might be in the wrong line of work. Absolutely no need to arrest the man. Total bullshit. I don't care if he's a total prick.

ahhhh ok, i see, youre one of those people who think the police should respect everyone no matter what, but that it is perfectly acceptable to be disrespectful of a police officer because he is a police officer

No, I think you should always respect a man in his own home. If you don't like what he has to say, leave. It's his house and he proved it was his house. He has the right to say whatever he wants and they should have just left. Very bad judgement on their part.

So basically you're saying (based on your initial post and your response), Gates should have been treated as a potential terrorist in this situation?

My .02

1) Gates refused to step outside to speak with the officer upon the officer's arrival, and according to reports, said something along the lines of "I'll step outside with your mama"

2) A second question was asked after that, which Gates said he would not answer

3) Gates initially refused to show any ID, then gave his Harvard ID (which proves nothing), and then finally gave up his license

4) There were NINE reported breakins in that neighborhood in the first quarter 2009, including one at Gates' house

5) Gates is the one who brought race into it, by screaming stupid shit like "this is how the black man is treated in America" and "you believe white women over black men"

6) Crowley is the city's diversity trainer, and was hand picked by the black chief of police for that post...and even with the Boston Globe doing everything they can to find something on him (which they can't, because they would've found it by now and had it on their front page).

7) Asking him to step outside is NORMAL POLICE PROCEDURE...the officer doesn't know what's in the house, who else is in the house etc...it has nothing to do with being "able to arrest Gates outside"

Gates is the one who won't let this just die, because he wants to get as much pub for his PBS documentary he's putting together...no one knows who he is, no one cares who he is, so no one would watch his documentary...but now...

9) Gates lied about not yelling due to "laryngitis". There are numerous witnesses who saw and heard him yelling, there's a PICTURE of him yelling, and there are tapes of Crowley's transmissions where (most likely, based on what the Cambridge police commissioner has said) you'll be able to hear Gates screaming at the top of his lungs at Crowley

10) The idea that Gates is considering a lawsuit is a joke. He's a pompous, racist asshole who pulled the "do you know who I am" card and did everything possible to create problems for the officer.

11) It's one thing for Obama to not have the facts...he's the president and he has more important things on his plate (like pushing through a completely bullshit healthcare package with no debate). But for Deval Patrick to say what he did, that it was "every black man's nightmare in America", is fucking stupid. Deval has been every bit the disaster for MA that anyone with a brain predicted he would be.

no, but his cane could have been used as a weapon against the officer for example

i think the problem is people are more willing to believe a black man than a white man when it comes to issues of racial intolerance

I was referring more to the point that he was really reaching by connecting Obama's statement about Gates to Obama somehow now making changes to airport security. I just don't see the connection.

You and I could argue about whether an elderly man who uses a cane to walk really poses any signifigant physical threat to that officer (did you see him? He looks pretty ripped). But that would go on all day and be pointless, so I'll drop that one.

the connection is rather quite simple. you cant judge things by how they look. as a police officer, im willing to bet they are trained to go into every situation and use the utmost caution possible so that they arent caught unaware and are surprised by some sort of attack. he may use a cane, but do you think he could operate gun and be dangerous with it?