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 Post subject: Nope, i still don't believe it
PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2005 3:06 am 
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http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/s ... id=2011727

A newspaper report linking Mark McGwire to steroid use in the early 1990s all but guarantees that steroids will be as much a part of the former St. Louis Cardinals slugger's legacy as home runs, and adds more bulk to the evidence that -- from 1988 to 2004 -- baseball was thick with artificially enhanced stars.

McGwire was known only for the home runs in the marvelous season of 1998, a year in which he wrecked Roger Maris' single-season record of 61 and finished with an incredible 70. Even an Associated Press story that summer about how he used Andro -- a steroid precursor -- did not dampen the enthusiasm. McGwire repeatedly denied using steroids, well into his retirement.

Now the New York Daily News has records that allegedly detail McGwire's steroid use, with the newspaper report coming on the heels of Jose Canseco's published assertions of steroid use by Major League Baseball players.

Dating to 1988, the American League and National League have distributed a total of 34 MVP awards. Of those, the winners of 13 -- almost 40 percent -- have been linked in some way to the steroid controversy, either through personal admissions, grand jury testimony, published accusations or congressional subpoenas.

In the same way, the six greatest single-season home run performances in baseball history -- three seasons of 63 or more by Sammy Sosa; two seasons of 65 and 70 by McGwire; and the 73 homers Barry Bonds clubbed in 2001 -- have been linked in some way to the steroid controversy.

There may be many more revelations to come -- and, ironically, probably for the same reason that some of the steroid users injected themselves: Money. The best-selling success of Canseco's book has demonstrated that anybody who claims to have inside knowledge and is willing to speak out -- and perhaps tell stories about former teammates -- can make some money. As the Daily News story demonstrates, we may be hearing more from personal trainers and steroid suppliers.


All indications are that this controversy won't deter most fans from paying to see games. Even as steroid suspicions swirled around Bonds last summer, the San Francisco Giants led the NL in road attendance as fans presumably flocked to see the player who will probably finish his career as the game's most prolific home run-hitter.

But the achievements of Bonds, Giambi, Caminiti and now McGwire will always be viewed through a clouded prism, instead of through the pure crystal that we remember Aaron, Mays, Robinson and Ruth.

Standing among the living members of 500-home run club before the All-Star Game last summer, commissioner Bud Selig proclaimed this was a golden age of baseball. Since then, two sluggers with him that day have been directly implicated with steroid use and another has been called to testify about steroids.

And history is destined to recall this period as baseball's Steroid Era.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2005 3:07 am 
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as much as i don't want to think it, i do think he juiced


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2005 3:07 am 
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Five days before the House Government Reform Committee is scheduled to question current and former major-league baseball players about steroids, one of the subpoened players, Mark McGwire, has emerged as a prominent figure of a month-long investigation by the New York Daily News.


McGwire

Citing FBI sources, the newspaper reported that McGwire's name came up several times in a landmark anabolic steroids investigation that led to 70 convictions in the early 1990s.

While evidence against McGwire was never collected and he was not a target in the investigation, two steroid dealers caught in the probe told the Daily News that another dealer provided McGwire and Jose Canseco, among others, with illegal anabolic steroids.

The Daily News said an informant told the paper that a California man named Curtis Wenzlaff injected McGwire on several occassions at a gym in Southern California. A former member of the gym where McGwire and Wenzlaff allegedly worked out together told the paper that he heard the two discuss steroids.

According to one of the informants, who the FBI said provided credible information throughout its probe, McGwire's regimen reportedly included injecting himself in the buttocks once every three days with two testosterone substances and weekly with another.

When contacted by the Daily News, Wenzlaff had no comment about the McGwire accounts but admitted turning Canseco from a novice into an expert steroid user.

According to the paper, representatives for McGwire and Canseco said the two did not remember meeting Wenzlaff and were not aware their names came up in the investigation.

"We're not going to comment on anything at this time but we believe one should consider the sources of such allegations," McGwire's representative said.

"Jose doesn't want to deny knowing him, but he just doesn't remember the guy," Canseco's attorney said.

McGwire has always denied using steroids, including as recently as last month, when Canseco's book was published.

Wenzlaff was introduced to the A's by longtime friend Reggie Jackson, who Wenzlaff insists never used steroids or knew that Wenzlaff was dealing them.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2005 3:14 am 
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he is "juicy" just like everyone else

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2005 5:35 am 
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yeah look at the damn guy when he was chasing maris...he is a beast....you don't get jacked up all of the sudden with age...and he certainly wasn't working out that much harder...everyone was so blind with the record chasing, they didn't look to see what was really happening

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2005 5:37 am 
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Wasn't there some substance that McGwire openly used and wasn't sanctioned by MLB at the time when he broke Maris's record?


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2005 5:43 am 
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Green Habit wrote:
Wasn't there some substance that McGwire openly used and wasn't sanctioned by MLB at the time when he broke Maris's record?

did you read the article?

second paragraph.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2005 5:52 am 
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davo15 wrote:
Green Habit wrote:
Wasn't there some substance that McGwire openly used and wasn't sanctioned by MLB at the time when he broke Maris's record?

did you read the article?

second paragraph.


Of course not. :P

Thanks.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2005 7:56 am 
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I was also blinded by the theatre of the McGwire/Sosa race to not consider steroids at the time. Looking back, it definitely raises doubts. I think McGwire was a fantastic power hitter even when he entered the league. However, when I think of the lean, yet strong hitter he was as a rookie and compare him to the pro wrestling specimen he became....it's hard to not have doubts.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2005 5:16 pm 
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Looks like Jeremy Giambi is the first to admit using steriods.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2005 5:57 pm 
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Zutballs wrote:
Looks like Jeremy Giambi is the first to admit using steriods.


after caminiti and canseco

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2005 5:59 pm 
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ledbetter10 wrote:
yeah look at the damn guy when he was chasing maris...he is a beast....you don't get jacked up all of the sudden with age...and he certainly wasn't working out that much harder...everyone was so blind with the record chasing, they didn't look to see what was really happening


i'm not in any way denying that he used steriods, so i'm not defending him, but how do you know how hard he worked out?

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2005 9:23 pm 
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Zutballs wrote:
Looks like Jeremy Giambi is the first to admit using steriods.


worked out great for him...


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 12:41 am 
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Mitchell613 wrote:
Zutballs wrote:
Looks like Jeremy Giambi is the first to admit using steriods.


worked out great for him...


Maybe he never would have made the majors without using?

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 12:53 am 
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Green Habit wrote:
Wasn't there some substance that McGwire openly used and wasn't sanctioned by MLB at the time when he broke Maris's record?


Canseco actually addressed that in his book..

Basically saying that he probably had the andro in his locker to throw people off....

Like if your mom smells smoke- You admit to the cigeratte so she doesnt know what you're really smoking- and you're hoping she doesnt know better.

Put andro in the locker- people who dont know better think thats what made you huge- when really you're on steriods.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 1:05 am 
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edzeppe wrote:
Green Habit wrote:
Wasn't there some substance that McGwire openly used and wasn't sanctioned by MLB at the time when he broke Maris's record?


Canseco actually addressed that in his book..

Basically saying that he probably had the andro in his locker to throw people off....

Like if your mom smells smoke- You admit to the cigeratte so she doesnt know what you're really smoking- and you're hoping she doesnt know better.

Put andro in the locker- people who dont know better think thats what made you huge- when really you're on steriods.


exactly

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