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 Post subject: BOTM #2: The Bottom Billion
PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 4:24 pm 
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Welcome to the second RM Book of the Month discussion. This time, we're reading "The Bottom Billion: Why The Poorest Countries Are Failing and What Can Be Done About It" by Paul Collier.

The following is a brief synopsis from Oxford University Press:
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Global poverty, Paul Collier points out, is actually falling quite rapidly for about eighty percent of the world. The real crisis lies in a group of about 50 failing states, the bottom billion, whose problems defy traditional approaches to alleviating poverty.

In The Bottom Billion , Collier contends that these fifty failed states pose the central challenge of the developing world in the twenty-first century. The book shines a much needed light on this group of small nations, largely unnoticed by the industrialized West, that are dropping further and further behind the majority of the world's people, often falling into an absolute decline in living standards. A struggle rages within each of these nation between reformers and corrupt leaders--and the corrupt are winning. Collier analyzes the causes of failure, pointing to a set of traps that snare these countries, including civil war, a dependence on the extraction and export of natural resources, and bad governance. Standard solutions do not work against these traps, he writes; aid is often ineffective, and globalization can actually make matters worse, driving development to more stable nations. What the bottom billion need, Collier argues, is a bold new plan supported by the Group of Eight industrialized nations. If failed states are ever to be helped, the G8 will have to adopt preferential trade policies, new laws against corruption, and new international charters, and even conduct carefully calibrated military interventions.

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 Post subject: Re: BOTM #2: The Bottom Billion
PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 11:34 pm 
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i'll look for this at the library or put it on hold here soon.

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 Post subject: Re: BOTM #2: The Bottom Billion
PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 1:55 am 
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Total snoozefest.

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 Post subject: Re: BOTM #2: The Bottom Billion
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 1:06 pm 
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started this last night, and i already have problems with it.

in the intro, he intimates that capitalism is a zero-sum game by saying that "when one country succeeds, another fails" or something along those lines. this is demonstrably false.

early returns: not good.

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 Post subject: Re: BOTM #2: The Bottom Billion
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 1:22 pm 
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When this book was chosen I went and bought it from Amazon out of habit since I like to buy my history books. Then I realized I have no reason to pay ten bucks for this book, but alas, even though it hasn't shipped they won't let me change the order. :?

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 Post subject: Re: BOTM #2: The Bottom Billion
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 1:24 pm 
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aprilfifth wrote:
When this book was chosen I went and bought it from Amazon out of habit since I like to buy my history books. Then I realized I have no reason to pay ten bucks for this book, but alas, even though it hasn't shipped they won't let me change the order. :?

Barnes and Noble ftw.

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 Post subject: Re: BOTM #2: The Bottom Billion
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 1:27 pm 
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What's their return policy like lol?

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 Post subject: Re: BOTM #2: The Bottom Billion
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 1:29 pm 
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aprilfifth wrote:
What's their return policy like lol?

They'll take anything that isn't damaged as long as you get it back within 2 weeks. Cash or store credit. :ohyeah!:

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 Post subject: Re: BOTM #2: The Bottom Billion
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 1:33 pm 
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bart d. wrote:
aprilfifth wrote:
What's their return policy like lol?

They'll take anything that isn't damaged as long as you get it back within 2 weeks. Cash or store credit. :ohyeah!:

truth?

so if i read it reallyquickly and don't put wear and tear on it, they'll take it back?

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 Post subject: Re: BOTM #2: The Bottom Billion
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 1:34 pm 
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thodoks wrote:
bart d. wrote:
aprilfifth wrote:
What's their return policy like lol?

They'll take anything that isn't damaged as long as you get it back within 2 weeks. Cash or store credit. :ohyeah!:

truth?

so if i read it reallyquickly and don't put wear and tear on it, they'll take it back?

Yep. That's what I did with both textbooks for the summer course I'm taking.

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 Post subject: Re: BOTM #2: The Bottom Billion
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 1:36 pm 
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Nice. After I read a book it doesn't even look like its ever been opened. It drives my wife crazy.

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 Post subject: Re: BOTM #2: The Bottom Billion
PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 4:50 pm 
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I'll go find this at B&N today. Has anyone else started reading it besides Kris? How's it coming?

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 Post subject: Re: BOTM #2: The Bottom Billion
PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 4:52 pm 
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aprilfifth wrote:
Nice. After I read a book it doesn't even look like its ever been opened. It drives my wife crazy.

I do this with certain books. I actually have been known to wear a glove on my left hand to avoid the stain from the oil in my skin, lol.

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 Post subject: Re: BOTM #2: The Bottom Billion
PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 11:03 pm 
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Buffalohed wrote:
aprilfifth wrote:
Nice. After I read a book it doesn't even look like its ever been opened. It drives my wife crazy.

I do this with certain books. I actually have been known to wear a glove on my left hand to avoid the stain from the oil in my skin, lol.

this sounds like a topic an episode of seinfeld could revolve around

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 Post subject: Re: BOTM #2: The Bottom Billion
PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 11:18 pm 
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I couldn't find this at B&N. Then again, it took me 10 minutes just to find the economics section. Actually, I had to ask someone where it was.

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 Post subject: Re: BOTM #2: The Bottom Billion
PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 11:25 pm 
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Buffalohed wrote:
I couldn't find this at B&N. Then again, it took me 10 minutes just to find the economics section. Actually, I had to ask someone where it was.

Yeah, it's in the Business section, usually right along the bottom so you can't possibly happen across it without asking someone.

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 Post subject: Re: BOTM #2: The Bottom Billion
PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 8:39 pm 
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thodoks wrote:
in the intro, he intimates that capitalism is a zero-sum game by saying that "when one country succeeds, another fails" or something along those lines.

That jumped off the page at me as well. It was the flippant, nonchalant way he said it: "Of course, for some countries to do relatively better, others must do relatively worse."

I'm sure he'll explain it, but right now I'm confused by what seems to be the main thesis of the book, "If nothing is done about it, this group [the "bottom billion" citizens of failing nations] will gradually diverge from the rest of the world economy over the next couple of decades, forming a ghetto of misery and discontent." Is this somehow different than what has already happened and continues to happen? Perhaps I'm being overly critical, but multiple times in the preface he talks about the future getting worse for these nations, which I'm not arguing with, but I don't see the future he paints as being significantly different than the current situation. I'm also not thrilled with the over-simplification that the political situation in these nations can be distilled to heroes and villains. I realize he states the book is written specifically for a wide audience, but surely he would agree that such a summation fails to provide a realistic picture. The paragraph on the "developmental biz" was pretty interesting.

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 Post subject: Re: BOTM #2: The Bottom Billion
PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 12:01 pm 
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Read the first chapter last night. I'm very interested in these four "traps" he's about to begin discussing. On the other hand I really don't like that he won't list the countries that he's talking about, nor apparently present the actual data, and asks us to trust him that its there. I'm sure data is there, but I'd like to see it nonetheless, even if I may not understand all of it.

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 Post subject: Re: BOTM #2: The Bottom Billion
PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 12:06 pm 
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aprilfifth wrote:
Read the first chapter last night. I'm very interested in these four "traps" he's about to begin discussing. On the other hand I really don't like that he won't list the countries that he's talking about, nor apparently present the actual data, and asks us to trust him that its there. I'm sure data is there, but I'd like to see it nonetheless, even if I may not understand all of it.

i might add that i've been disappointed with his unwillingness to connect the dots. he goes on and on about correlation X and correlation Y, but doesn't go very far in explaining why those correlations might exist.

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 Post subject: Re: BOTM #2: The Bottom Billion
PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 12:17 pm 
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Does he eventually present data? From the first chapter when he explains his methodology it sounded like he wouldn't. I was hoping that I was wrong.

I had other thoughts from what I read but I don't remember them now.

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