Southwest apologizes after director is kicked off flight for being too heavy
February 15, 2010 | 7:23 am Director Kevin Smith has sparked a debate about airline policies toward obese passengers after he says he was kicked off a Southwest Airlines flight from Oakland to Burbank this weekend for being too heavy.
The "Clerks" director sent out a series of Twitter messages detailing the events and expressing outrage that he was told by airline employees to leave the plane even though he insisted that he fit in his seat.
"I know I'm fat, but was [the airline] really justified in throwing me off a flight for which I was already seated?" he wrote. "I broke no regulation, offered no 'safety risk.' "
Smith said the incident took place Saturday and that he was eventually able to make it to L.A. on another Southwest flight.
Southwest is one of many airlines that require overweight customers to purchase two seats if they cannot comfortably fit into one seat. The airline determines this in part based on a passenger's ability to lower both armrests while sitting on the plane.
Smith insisted he could lower both armrests.
Southwest issued an apology to Smith on its Twitter feed. "We are sincerely sorry for your travel experience on Southwest Airlines," the airline added in a statement.
An organization called the National Assn. to Advance Fat Acceptance has called for a boycott of Southwest.
But Southwest said the weight policy has been in place for 25 years.
"The policy requires passengers that cannot fit safely and comfortably in one seat to purchase an additional seat while traveling," the airline said in a statement. "This policy is not unique to Southwest Airlines and it is not a revenue generator. Most, if not all, carriers have similar policies, but unique to Southwest is the refunding of the second seat purchased [if the flight does not oversell], which is greater than any revenue made."
An organization called the National Assn. to Advance Fat Acceptance
Ray Bradbury just rolled over in his grave.
_________________ "Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires." -- John Steinbeck
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 7:19 pm Posts: 39068 Location: Chapel Hill, NC, USA Gender: Male
bart d. wrote:
aprilfifth wrote:
Quote:
An organization called the National Assn. to Advance Fat Acceptance
Ray Bradbury just rolled over in his grave.
Ray Bradbury is alive and well.
4/5's English teacher just rolled over in his grave.
_________________ "Though some may think there should be a separation between art/music and politics, it should be reinforced that art can be a form of nonviolent protest." - e.v.
An organization called the National Assn. to Advance Fat Acceptance
Ray Bradbury just rolled over in his grave.
Ray Bradbury is alive and well.
No, this killed him just so he could have the opportunity to roll over in his grave.
_________________ "Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires." -- John Steinbeck
Yah, I saw this story this morning and read his twitter trying to find the photo. An article claimed he took a photo of himself in a seat with his cheeks puffed to show he fit fine.
I completely sympathize with Southwest here. It's simply not fair to the other passengers. If they wanted to do the easy thing, you'd let him stay. Non confrontational, etc.
It has nothing to do with being rich, famous, etc. It's a matter of physics. Is it fair that XXL Jackets cost more than small ones cause they utilize more fabric?
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I totally see your point, and it sucks to be stuck in the middle seat between two obese people who are spilling into your seat. However, with the obesity rate what it is in the US, you'd think they would do something about the size of the seats. That's not to say that we should scale everything up to accommodate this problem in all areas of life, but traveling is uncomfortable enough as it is. That is a remarkably unwise business decision though, if you can pack less people on a plane.
I don't know. I think it would be absolutely humiliating to be asked off a plane because of size. Maybe that will jump start his weight loss, but I don't think that's the appropriate way to do it.
#1: If they make the seats bigger and put fewer people on the plane then smaller people have to subsidize bigger people. Ie, if they only have 120 seats vs 180 they will have to charge more for each seat. It's a business decision as much as owning an airline is one of the worst businesses in the history of capitalism. They almost never make money as is so it's not some evil empire or anything.
#2: Yes, I feel bad for them. However, they knew when they go on the plane they were 300 pounds! It's their own fault for putting other passengers in an uncomfortable situation. I'm sure the last thing the flight attendants want to do is tell some person they need to leave because they are fat. How horrible and sad. But, the people sitting next to the 300 pound guy had no clue this was going to happen. The 300 pound person knew 100% what was going to happen when they booked the flight with only one seat. I feel more bad for the bystanders than the "victim".
It isn't even about genetics, overweight, etc. It's simply about comfort and fairness to the others on the plane. I wouldn't want to sit next to a raging screaming child either. I'd hope the flight attendant/captain would throw them off the plane, too.
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Couple points quickly.
1. g2t, how do determine if that person needs an XXL shirt because he's 6'10? Obviously thats not a lifestyle choice, its a genetic thing that caused that difference. Are you comfortable charging someone more because of their genetic makeup? Probably not, or the blacks, and women, and gays could be charged more. Luckily this rarely, if ever, comes in to play. Ive seen target charges more for a shirt thats larger, but thats about the only place. Obviously the weight thing is not genetic, but just addressing your shirt example.
2. Ultimately, the really only problem with this, is that the weight/size thing IS subjective. If they have no firm rules, its entirely feasible someone could get on one flight, not have another word said to them, and reach their stopover... and then the 2nd plane could have a person say "that passenger is too big" and they kick them off. If the airlines are going to have these rules, there really needs to be firm rules... and if Kevin Smith (or anyone) met those requirements, they should get to stay on the flight.
Also, i am 6'7, and built pretty proportionally (like you know how a short pudgy guy youd call stocky? kinda the same, but too tall to be "stocky").. and i have absolutely no problems with getting totally into a seat with both arm rests, and am actually comfortable in an airplane seat as far as the side to side goes. You would have to be absolutely HUGE to not fit into one of those seats.
1. g2t, how do determine if that person needs an XXL shirt because he's 6'10? Obviously thats not a lifestyle choice, its a genetic thing that caused that difference. Are you comfortable charging someone more because of their genetic makeup? Probably not, or the blacks, and women, and gays could be charged more. Luckily this rarely, if ever, comes in to play. Ive seen target charges more for a shirt thats larger, but thats about the only place. Obviously the weight thing is not genetic, but just addressing your shirt example.
2. Ultimately, the really only problem with this, is that the weight/size thing IS subjective. If they have no firm rules, its entirely feasible someone could get on one flight, not have another word said to them, and reach their stopover... and then the 2nd plane could have a person say "that passenger is too big" and they kick them off. If the airlines are going to have these rules, there really needs to be firm rules... and if Kevin Smith (or anyone) met those requirements, they should get to stay on the flight.
Also, i am 6'7, and built pretty proportionally (like you know how a short pudgy guy youd call stocky? kinda the same, but too tall to be "stocky").. and i have absolutely no problems with getting totally into a seat with both arm rests, and am actually comfortable in an airplane seat as far as the side to side goes. You would have to be absolutely HUGE to not fit into one of those seats.
Are you (fucking) serious? Someone charges more for an XXL shirt because it costs more to make that shirt. I don't care why they are huge, if I'm manufacturing clothing and I have to use 2x the fabric I will charge more for the fabric. It's not an ethnic issue, a genetic issue, a race issue, a candy bar issue. There are variable costs involved with making clothing. The bigger you are, the more it costs. Sorry it works out like that.
If they could, they would charge more money for the 300 pound person at the buffet, too. I am 130 pounds. I'm quite certain I eat less than the 300 pound person but equally certain they charge me the same amount of money to eat all I can at that buffet. While many of the costs of the buffet are fixed, the food, the most expensive, is of course variable. I am subsidizing people who eat more than me.
The plane issue is different. If the seats were much bigger and we all paid more as a result, then yes, I'd be subsidizing larger people. However, I would at least be getting a larger seat in return (vs. eating the same amount at a buffet). Now, if the seats are "market based", ie, they size them for the vast majority of people, why is that wrong?
Let's say 5% of people need to buy 2 seats. Let's say a plane fits 200 people and charges $100 a seat. What's more fair:
200 seats, $100 a seat, and 10 people have to buy 2 seats at $100 each OR 100 seats, $200 a seat, and 190 people have to subsidize the 10 people who had to buy 2 seats (and end up paying the same price anyway).
Even if its 150 people at $133 a seat, is it fair to make 140 people pay $33 more so 10 people could save $66?
Yes, if the majority of society could not fit in the airplane seat they should make them bigger. But its a small minority. The meantime, buy two fucking seats.
You said it yourself: You'd have to be absolutely huge to not fit in one of those seats. I agree.
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