JUSTICE SCALIA: The cross doesn't honor non-Christians who fought in the war? Is that -- is that --

MR. ELIASBERG: I believe that's actually correct.

JUSTICE SCALIA: Where does it say that?

MR. ELIASBERG: It doesn't say that, but a cross is the predominant symbol of Christianity and it signifies that Jesus is the son of God and died to redeem mankind for our sins, and I believe that's why the Jewish war veterans --

JUSTICE SCALIA: It's erected as a war memorial. I assume it is erected in honor of all of the war dead. It's the -- the cross is the -- is the most common symbol of -- of -- of the resting place of the dead, and it doesn't seem to me -- what would you have them erect? A cross -- some conglomerate of a cross, a Star of David, and you know, a Moslem half moon and star?

MR. ELIASBERG: Well, Justice Scalia, if I may go to your first point. The cross is the most common symbol of the resting place of Christians. I have been in Jewish cemeteries. There is never a cross on a tombstone of a Jew. (Laughter.)

MR. ELIASBERG: So it is the most common symbol to honor Christians.

JUSTICE SCALIA: I don't think you can leap from that to the conclusion that the only war dead that that cross honors are the Christian war dead. I think that's an outrageous conclusion.

MR. ELIASBERG: Well, my -- the point of my -- point here is to say that there is a reason the Jewish war veterans came in and said we don't feel honored by this cross. This cross can't honor us because it is a religious symbol of another religion.

I should watch that. Scalia is both hilarious and dangerous:



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/geoffrey- ... 14752.html

Actually, even as an atheist, I'm with Scalia on this.

Most western countries are CULTURALLY Christian, whether you like it or not.
There might be lots of people of other religions but the laws and general moral conventions are derived mostly from Christianity. It's not the same as saying they're purely Christian, it's just the historical background, the same way that the culture of India is derived from Hinduism for example.

Which means that whatever their actual faith, people from our countries recognise a cross on a war monument as a symbol of death, not necessarily as a purely Christian symbol that excludes other religions (unlike a cross on a public building for example)
You might argue that the monument should have no symbol at all on it of course.. but then it's purpose wouldn't be as instantly recognisable. And if that particular monument has been around for decades, leave it be.

Is being instantly recognizable the most important criteria for a war monument to you? Because personally, I don't see what that has to do with anything. The Vietnam and WWII monuments in Washington DC are not recognizable as war monuments at all unless you already know what they are.

I think you make a poor argument. Noone is arguing that the cross is inconspicuous and Jewish people aren't sure what it's supposed to mean. And yeah, it IS a purely Christian symbol. It doesn't "exclude" or "include" anything, it's just a religious symbol, but it's the religious symbol of ONE particular faith.

I don't get your point about the historical background. Western culture is traditionally Christian, and..... ??? Our culture is historically Christian (even though it's ridiculous to talk about there being only one culture in the US) so people of all religions should never complain about being forced to partake in Christianity? Is that your point?

a war monument displaying a cross isn't forcing anyone to partake in Christianity.. it's just a symbol (And I argue that in that context it's more than a religious symbol), like a war monument is (mind you there isn't much point in monuments like that anyway. And yes to be recognisable is about the only point of one actually.)

I should watch that. Scalia is both hilarious and dangerous:



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/geoffrey- ... 14752.html

It's more than a religious symbol? I don't get it. The cross stands for one thing and one thing only: Christianity. It is used on gravestones because Jesus was killed on a cross and those people are dead and like Jesus, sacrificed themselves for man. It has everything to do with Jesus and Christianity and nothing to do with "war" or "history". It would be highly offensive if you put a cross on my tombstone for eternity. Isn't that the litmus test?

I see the cross in that context the way people see Xmas. You know it refers to Christianity but in practice don't care/ignore it. Many non-Christian celebrate xmas in Western countries, because it's traditional here that's all.

YOU see it that way which is fine but many others do not. That's the point, really. Just because the majority of a free, non secular, country believes in something doesn't mean the minority has to nor have the state fund things associated with it (like cross based landmarks).

For the record, I have no problem with Christmas. Also, I'm an Atheist who happens to be in Jew skin.

This probably wasn't your best example of "dangerous" behaviour, though.