Recently, I let loose my spiritual side a little and decided to explore religion with an open - but critical - mind. I've been an atheist for years now, and though the desire for something more always existed inside of me, I know with my mind that wishing for something above and beyond my senses does not make it so.

I am not inclined to believe in a personal creator who cares about our lives, and my reasons are admittedly cliche. Suffering in this world (and according to many religious texts, the world beyond this) is more than enough to convince me that a good God doesn't exist. Having been a Southern Baptist Christian for 18 years, I understand the whole argument that suffering is the product of human sin, and I even understand the reasoning behind Hell and eternal punishment as a necessity of infinite justice. The idea of exclusivism as the answer to sin, though - believing in Mohammad or Christ or whoever - just doesn't work for me. Christ made a sacrifice for us, yes. Why, though, must we believe in it to be saved? What makes it different from a Buddhist who respects the story yet rejects it in the name of a belief system he has been taught throughout his life? Why should Allah, if He exists, send to eternal punishment those who honestly believe that Christ's blood is the answer, or good karma?

Does anyone remember why Hamlet didn't kill himself? It had nothing to do with what was going on in the play at all - it was based on the fear of what comes after death. My scientific tendency tells me that there's nothing but eternal sleep after I pass on, but deep inside, I'm still not sure. I have no idea whether I'm going to be standing in front of Jehova, or Allah, or Christ, or whether I'm coming back as a goddamned butterfly, or whatever. I don't know. If I knew the answer - any answer - I'd be more comfortable with dying. But, honestly, a part of me believes that's how religion was created in the first place. Maybe some folks thought they had the honest answers, or maybe they thought it would be the most effective system of planting fear and control, whatever.

I also want to find teachings that help me control my emotion. My anger is absolutely out of control. It harms others whom I love and care for, and it leaves me in such terrible positions that I wonder why I still have friends at all. This is particularly why Buddhism is attractive to me right now. Even though I'm far too materialistic to be a Buddhist, their teachings of peace, control, and nonviolence are extraordinarily convincing. Islam and Christianity, despite what their apologists say, are far from peaceful religions.

I don't want this thread to turn into some kind of religious flame-war, if at all possible. I know there are many different religions and philosophies represented by all the members of this board, and I'd love to hear everyone's voice.

Engage!

A pretty decent discussion we had here a couple weeks ago on that topic. I also believe that the afterlife is the most central idea to any religion, and this was my post in that thread, but read the whole thread.
http://www.theskyiscrape.com/phpBB2/viewt ... 03&start=8

This was a very good thread as well.

http://www.theskyiscrape.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=10635




As one who has anger issues of my own, I don't think that any religion is as good for dealing with those as physical methods are. Exercise, yoga, breathing techniques, and laughter are the best therapies I've found to mental peace.

First of all let me say that I respect all beliefs but like you I'm also atheist just because to me theists are unable to provide good rational, logical and empirical reasons to believe that their god exists. In the absence of such support for their claims, theism doesn't seem reasonable to me.

I also believe that atheism has the same advantage that skepticism generally does. When we refrain from adopting beliefs and accepting claims which lack adequate support, it is less likely that we will be cheated, tricked, or made fools of. It’s no guarantee, but it is a good method for maintaining intellectual and personal integrity and for preventing religious hucksters from taking advantage of us.

Of course religion is a great confort to many people so all I can say is to each his own.

I think I still have a set of Anger Coping Skills flash cards from when I used to be a youth counselor. You guys want me to send them to you?

Scan them and post them. I bet they lead to laughter.

I'll see what I can do.

...and weed of course, don't forget the weed.

In response to Yoda: I had a very similar upbringing and I think we all suffer the same nagging questions. Personally I feel it is a product of the unnatural fear indoctrinated within us by sermons of hellfire and brimstone; but I could be wrong.

If you haven't already read it, I'd definitely suggest this book.



http://www.phil-books.com/Heart_of_Buddhas_Teaching_0767903692.html

What has always intrigued me about Buddhism is the teaching of the "middle path". I wish more religions would adopt this particular teaching.

I know you were being humorous, but on the contrary, I found that weed, or any other drug for that matter, merely represses anger and other emotions, only for them to come back later when you least expect them, and at a time and in a way that you will be less well equipped to deal with them.

I tend to think of any structured belief system as inherently flawed because (in my opinion) these belief systems were designed by humans. We want structure and order in life and a great way to do that is to hold a very specialized set of beliefs about God, death, whatever.
This, to me, is just primitive fear. Fear on the reptile brain level. We know we have no control over life and death (no REAL control anyway) and no knowledge of what happens 'next' so we make a religion that says: this happens, as long as we do this.
I don't think it's a bad thing to hold a set of beliefs in order to give you strength or the power to continue on after a horrible event in your life etc, or even as a way to just stay sane each day, for me though, I find myself happiest when I appreciate the innate beauty of creation and living and nature and I leave the ideas of 'God created it all' or 'there's no God' or any range of possibilities in between for the secret toy surprise at the bottom of my box of cracker jacks.
That being said, I talk to God in my head a lot. If God is there, awesome. If not, I don't mind talking to myself too much either.

Good luck, Yoda...I'm atheist, and my reaction to that has always been to maintain an intense fascination with philosophy and morality, to value life unconditionally, and to want to explore and do as much with my time as possible. In many ways I'm successful...in others, well, here I am posting on a message board, eh?

Can't say I've ever had anger problems, so I don't know what to do there. Masterbation?

Believe me ... if I didn't masturbate, I'd be the dictator of about five or six different nations right now.

I think that the idea of religion is laughable... it is just another way to plant seeds of fear that grow and grow... and fear is what any institution that wants money are power relies on for its followers.... as far as God. i don't believe jesus is god... i believe he was a great man that taught love compassion and humility.. and also (what religion never teaches you).. personal strength and personal salvation.. i dont believe he meant salvation through him, but through yourself. I also believe in an observant power, but not sure what it is.

Haha well since you PMed me, I'll try to give you an in depth reply on the side of how Vedic --- Krishna Conscious "religion" views well, religion and spirituality.

Without getting preachy (yes I do dislike the extreme zealots that seem to be so widespread in and around those who share the same belief system as me.) I'll try to explain how things are seen.

In the "beginning" we were all at peace, in our natural place in Heaven serving Krishna (another name for God by the way, monotheism.) But for whatever reason we thought to ourselves "well, maybe I could start doing things to please me instead of just God" and that is when we got sent to the material world. Vedic philosophy is as simple as something a 4 year old can understand, yet far too complex for any human to ever fully take in during one lifetime. Vedic belief thats that according to our karma from past lives in the material world that determines our place of birth (Earth, the Sun, other planets materialist-scientists don't know about) and WHAT we are born as (human, animal, insect, plant, etc.) We are all eternal spirit souls that can not be destroyed by anything, ever, we just take on different "skins" as it were. When we die and haven't achieved enlightenment yet than we just take on another "skin" and live another life in the material universe.

But Vedic religion states that the only form of life that can achieve liberation from the material world is that of human beings, that is why human birth is considered so rare and special. If you believe it or not we've all gone through millions and millions of births and deaths, as plants, insects, animals, anything other living thing. So now here we are, as the the ever egotistical human. Animals don't have the ability to learn scriptures, or pray, they are to busy defending, eating, and mating. Hopefully modern man has gone a little bit past just those basic things, are is now looking at the spiritual side of life.

Vedic religion is actually very open, and particularly the Hare Krishna movement, which contrary to popular belief isn't even a religion, it's a form of God Consciousness, that's why it's called The International Society For Krishna Consciousness. But anyway, the belief is that all bona fide religions lead back to Godhead, our eternal natural state of serving God. So therefore taking the example of Christianity, there are a lot of "Sunday Christians" they're nice to people on their way to and from church, than the other 6 days of the week they might as well call themselves an atheist for how much harm they do to people. We're not cool with that, that kind of personal is not God Conscious at all, they're putting on a show to look good. Rather a Christian who is God Conscious maybe never even goes to church! but rather actually lives by Jesus' teachings and tries to live a God Conscious life, that person is deserving of liberation from the material world.

Well I guess that seems all peachy fine, but there's a little problem in the system of things, we're in an age of destruction, Krishnas call it Kali Yuga. In this "age" humanity itself starts to go downhill, fast, slowly all sense of religion and spirituality are lost, eventually leading to doomsday as it were (but not in the destructive sense, more of a cleansing and new beginning, as Yugas run in an endless cycle of good to bad back to good again.) So we live in an age where terrible things are happening more and more and more. People say that things were better 30 years ago, and others might say they're looking at the past through rose coloured glasses, but they're not, things are getting worse and will continue to get worse. But hope isn't lost because obviously we as a humanity have the ability to maintain religion and God Consciousness, if you don't believe me just take a look at people like the Pope who just died, or a Christian monastery of men who believe deeply in God, and love Him. But that is why there is an extreme sense of angry, and pain, and confusion, life in the material world in general is hell, it's separation from God, but the Kali Yuga just makes it all the more worse.

But anyway, the point of human life should be to somehow attain God Consciousness, through a bona fide religion and with pure intentions, to focus on yourself rather than other's well beings, because in the end you are the only one that can free yourself, with the help of God obviously.

I'm sure I confused everyone, so just ask me to clear anything up if need be.