I'm sure nobody really cares about a few trees in Arizona, but this one kinda hits home... If you haven't heard, right now, AZ has its 2nd (soon to be 1st) largest, 5th largest, and 8th largest wildfires ever, all burning at the same time... One of them charred the Chiricahua Mountains, which are an incredibly beautiful place, apparently with a few protected species as well (due to its "sky island" ecosystem).

The Wallow Fire is destroying the most beautiful part of the state... Firefighter apparently said Big Lake is "just sticks", and there are "dead elk everywhere." And that one is 0% contained. Apparently it is currently burning Greer, AZ to the ground as we speak, which is a major shame (hope the rumor's false). It has sentimental value, as my great-grandfather built a cabin there, which I spent time at every summer growing up.

Rumor is, all of these fires are human caused. And today someone intentionally set several fires outside of Flagstaff.

I guess the part that merits discussion, rather than just mourning, is the fact that all of the largest fires this state has seen have all been relatively recently (like within the last 10 years). I don't know if you can blame this entirely on drought... It seems like there is some severe mismanagement of forest lands going on... One of the major talking points around here is that it's because of well-intentioned, but misguided, attempts to "protect" nature by preventing thinning. I'm not sure about the merits of this argument, but it is pretty much a consensus that the forests were much thinner before the last 100 or so years.

It might be too late to do anything... but man, it's hard to watch such a beautiful area go up in smoke.

The only way thinning can be at all feasible is if they let loggers go in to selectively harvest. And that would just ruin everything, yanno?

Yeah, I don't want to be "that guy", but two lumber mills in Eagar closed in the late 90s, and Nutrioso closed in 2002. Coincidence? Maybe not, I haven't researched it thoroughly, but maybe it's worth looking at.

Also, this talk of wildfire ruins my perception of Arizona as a desert wasteland.

It will be before long.

The Wallow fire is burning up an immense stand of ponderosa pines, with some spruce and aspens mixed in for good measure. Here's a photo from SE of Big Lake (now burnt to a crisp):


Big Lake (now burnt to a crisp, outside of the actual water):


Hannagan Meadow, now burnt to a crisp:


Near Escudilla Mountain, now burnt to a crisp:


And this one is from the Chiricahua Mountains, which now have apparently been mostly burnt to a crisp:

Isn't fire somewhat advantangeous to some species of conifers?

It is, provided the tree is mature enough and the fire isn't too hot. The problem with the way the forests are right now is that there are too many young trees, which make the fire hotter, and elevate it to the crowns of the mature trees (which makes the fire spread a lot faster). Back when nature was allowed to run its course, the trees would be spaced out enough that the fire would burn up the extra saplings, do its thing with the pine cones, and leave the mature trees a little burnt on the bottom, but still fine otherwise. I think if the fire is too hot, it can also sterilize the ground or something, making it difficult for the forest to regrow.

The other major problem here is this is the dry season. Lightning starts a lot of fires in the monsoon season, but it's OK because it doesn't spread fast, and the rain puts it out soon enough. None of these fires were started by lightning; all of them were human caused.

If the trees weren't so unnaturally dense, the fire probably wouldn't have been much of an issue.

im in Vail, CO. Your fires are ruining my blue sky, damnit.

This might be good though....minus the human element.....

We are having the huge pine beetle issue out here. Our forests were not properly managed for a long time as well and some believe these fires that are happening may be the best way in natural clearing of the forests

We've had some pretty big forest fires in trinidad and keystone this season as well. Over the past years they have done a handful of controlled burns to help protect the forests by thining them out in this fashion. Its surprising that there are so many wildfires considering how wet the winter was. It was a pretty wet spring as well...

Its sad but maybe this is a healthy way of clearing out the forests. Natural maybe (origination of the fires at least).

p.s. Stop ruining my blue sky. Your fires are blowing into our atmosphere goddamnit!

I think a wildfire of this scale is about as natural and helpful as clear cutting.

yea its just tough to swallow when it is affecting so many peoples lives.

I guess this answers some of my questions regarding the wet spring:

EAGLE COUNTY, Colorado — Every part of the world has the potential for some form of natural disasters, and in Eagle County, the impending threat with the largest scale consequences is the threat of wildfire.

Every year, as the snow melts, our local U.S. Forest Service and members of local fire departments and local governments assess the upcoming fire season. As of now, that assessment is fairly uncertain.

“Due to all the moisture we've had, it's sort of good and bad,” said Vail Fire Chief Mark Miller.

Good because there's moisture, but bad because that moisture means a lot of the ground fuels such as grass and brush is growing with ease.

The Vail Fire Department is continuing its work to create more defensible space — gaps that essentially separate the forest from infrastructure and people — this summer. The town has a four-person wildfire crew that is working on 16 project areas this season to help reduce wildfire danger.

Last year, crews in Vail cut about 1,175 trees as part of its defensible space projects.

Miller said that while he feels Vail is at about 75 percent of where it needs to be with defensible space, each year there seems to be more problems that arise.

“Each year we accomplish a bit more, but then we also get more dead trees and other issues,” Miller said. “It's one of those ongoing projects. ... It's hard to stay ahead of it, but I'm feeling good about what we've done and the space we've created.”

Outlook
The fire season forecast for this part of Colorado is calling for equal chances of either hotter and dryer than normal weather or wetter than normal weather.

Dave Neely, the district ranger for the Eagle/Holy Cross District of the White River National Forest, said there's isn't a clear indication for the Western Slope that there will be anything other than a normal fire season this year.

Normal has typically meant fairly quiet in recent years, but there are some other variables that will still have to play out before forecasters can be more certain.

Variables like the monsoon season, which generally begins around the second week of July, will help determine what this year's fire season looks like.

Eric Lovgren, Eagle County's wildfire mitigation manager, said if the monsoon comes and things stay relatively wet, it should be a quiet year.

But with the grasses and low-growing fuels for fires really taking off because of the wet spring, potential dangers are definitely looming.

“The monsoon season is the big deciding factor,” Lovgren said.

Miller said the fire season could end up being later this year.

“It could be more of a September problem for us,” Miller said. “There are so many variables, all environmentally driven.”

Preparedness
Neely said the Forest Service feels pretty good about the fuels mitigation work that has been done and local defensible space.

There's more work to be done this year, though, in areas throughout the county near Minturn, Vail and Eagle. Neely said there's about seven miles alone of Red Sandstone Road in Vail that are lined with dead or weak trees.

“We need to control the time and direction those trees come to the ground,” Neely said.

Neely is meeting with the Vail Town Council Tuesday night to go over that project and others.

Lovgren said a lot of training has been done county-wide to prepare for the fire season and there's been an increase what's called “pre-attack” planning, meaning maps, resources and other key information is heavily organized for fire response teams.

“From an operational standpoint, I think we're as ready as we can be,” Lovgren said.

County projects this summer include more work on tree removal and defensible space on Bellyache Ridge, an Eby Creek area project north of Eagle, and projects in the Basalt area.

Neely said that fire suppression, the way the Forest Service has typically managed the local forests in the past, isn't necessarily the answer anymore.

National fire policies are moving away from fire suppression as the only way to manage forest fires, he said.

“Fire is a natural part of these landscapes,” Neely said. “A hundred years of aggressive suppression hasn't really worked for the ecosystem.”

Neely said the Forest Service intends to manage every fire, and in some cases that management means the fires will be allowed to do what they need to do to achieve some ecological benefits, meaning the fires won't always be put out right away.

“It's about using every available tool to achieve (safety and ecological) benefits,” Neely said.

And while defensible space does decrease the chances of having catastrophic loss, Miller said he doesn't want people to feel a false sense of security because of that space.

“It does buy us some time,” Miller said. “The key with wildland fire is to get a quick response and quick, under control effort going.”

The greatest road trip I ever took was from CT to Denver, and then I took I-25 down into NM, to I-40W out to the Grand Canyon (and then onto Las Vegas). I spent a few days in AZ (stayed in Flagstaff). One of the most beautiful places imaginable. This really sucks.

Wildfires are a natural part of the forest cycle, and part of the reason we're seeing such extreme fires is that for so many years we've put down any fire as soon as it get started (or made every effort to). It was all done with good intentions, but forests need to burn every once in a while.

You see this issue in the Colorado Rocky mountains as well. The last couple times I have been there it's just heartbreaking because whole mountains are covered with dead trees--the trees have been killed by bark beetles who normally are kept from running rampant by the winter and fires in the summer. Now, go forbid any fire gets started because those forests will burn in a hurry.

Such a shame.

Will make for better skiing and more terrain though

some species of flora have seeds that cannot be opened unless they have been through a fire...

no one's saying natural forest fires aren't okay, kj.

It's okay, I care. I'm in Phoenix right now, but I love Sedona and Flagstaff areas.

Are any og these fires being aggravated by their being a lack of controlled burns being done. In years past the lack of controlled burns, bowing to uninformed eco-freaks, resulted in wild fires that were much worse than necessary in California. If you're not going to allow controlled burns, then you better allow selected harvesting or your wild filres will just burn like crazy.

There are pretty much two reasonable choices out there:
--Have controlled burns and forest thinning, and contain the fires
--Do nothing, and let it burn

You can't have it both ways.

I was just making a comment about that ... I said nothing about forest fires.

someone asked about conifers.