Post subject: Department of Justice: Full Tilt Poker='Global Ponzi Scheme"
Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 5:22 pm
Fuck Sharks
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2008 2:14 am Posts: 3642 Location: Tampa Bay, FL Gender: Male
Forbes is reporting that on Tuesday morning the U.S. Justice Department accused Full Tilt Poker’s board members Howard Lederer, Chris Ferguson, and Rafe Furst of working with CEO Ray Bitar to defraud poker players out of more than $440 million over the past four years.
After Tuesday’s amendments to April’s original indictment swept more names from the beleaguered site into the thick of legal trouble, Manhattan’s U.S. Attorney Preet Bharara said in a statement that “Full Tilt was not a legitimate poker company, but a global Ponzi scheme,” while “insiders lined their own pockets with funds picked from the pockets of their most loyal customers while blithely lying to both players and the public alike about the safety and security of the money deposited with the company.”
The government is also alleging that on March 31 Full Tilt only had about $60 million in the bank while owing about $400 million globally, including $150 million to U.S. customers.
The company is currently in discussions with the Alderney Gambling Control Commission over its suspended license.
Post subject: Re: Department of Justice: Full Tilt Poker='Global Ponzi Scheme"
Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 5:28 pm
Administrator
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 10:53 pm Posts: 20537 Location: The City Of Trees
Yikes. I hope that's not true about Lederer, he was always one of my favorite poker players. I hope this doesn't ensnare Phil Ivey, either, as he was involved with Full Tilt, as well.
Post subject: Re: Department of Justice: Full Tilt Poker='Global Ponzi Scheme"
Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 5:31 pm
Fuck Sharks
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2008 2:14 am Posts: 3642 Location: Tampa Bay, FL Gender: Male
I was thinking the same thing about Phil Ivey. He is one of my favorites, and I can't help but wonder how much he knew about this prior to sitting out the WSOP this year.
Post subject: Re: Department of Justice: Full Tilt Poker='Global Ponzi Scheme"
Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 5:38 pm
Administrator
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 10:53 pm Posts: 20537 Location: The City Of Trees
ScottZeagle wrote:
I was thinking the same thing about Phil Ivey. He is one of my favorites, and I can't help but wonder how much he knew about this prior to sitting out the WSOP this year.
Well, Ivey sued Fill Tilt earlier alleging that its players were collectively owed more than $150 million. Given this new news, it seems like Ivey knew what was up. Maybe the DOJ has or will secure immunity with him? Or maybe Ivey is just trying to cover his own ass?
Post subject: Re: Department of Justice: Full Tilt Poker='Global Ponzi Scheme"
Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 5:40 pm
Fuck Sharks
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2008 2:14 am Posts: 3642 Location: Tampa Bay, FL Gender: Male
Green Habit wrote:
ScottZeagle wrote:
I was thinking the same thing about Phil Ivey. He is one of my favorites, and I can't help but wonder how much he knew about this prior to sitting out the WSOP this year.
Well, Ivey sued Fill Tilt earlier alleging that its players were collectively owed more than $150 million. Given this new news, it seems like Ivey knew what was up. Maybe the DOJ has or will secure immunity with him? Or maybe Ivey is just trying to cover his own ass?
My guess is, they owed him money, and he knew that they didn't have it - so he sued to get in the front of the line.
You never know. He seems like a genuinely nice guy at the table, but when we're talking the kind of money it's alleged he received in this, then we're dealing with whole different ballgame.
Lederer has always seemd like a class a fag, on the other hand.
Players money was coming in and being funneled to the board illegally. As players wanted to withdraw cash, they had to use "new" cash that was provided by new players. Once everyone wanted to withdraw at once, the scheme failed. That's a ponzi scheme.
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Post subject: Re: Department of Justice: Full Tilt Poker='Global Ponzi Scheme"
Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 4:43 pm
Fuck Sharks
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2008 2:14 am Posts: 3642 Location: Tampa Bay, FL Gender: Male
This sounds like a semantics defense...
Quote:
Attorneys representing Full Tilt Poker have reacted to U.S. Attorney Preet Bharara’s statement that Full Tilt was not a legitimate poker company, but a global Ponzi scheme. This statement was made on Tuesday after the U.S. Department of Justice claimed the site’s board members Chris Ferguson, Howard Lederer, and Rafe Furst worked with CEO Ray Bitar to defraud poker players out of more than $440 million over four years.
Today, according to the Wall Street Journal, Full Tilt’s attorney, Ian Imrich said in response, “While the government has obviously taken issue with the underlying activities of FTP, under any reasonable interpretation, the world-wide operations of the online cardroom are not a so-called Ponzi scheme.”
Jeff Ifrah who represents the company in related litigation and is Bitar’s personal attorney, said, “A Ponzi scheme requires an investment vehicle in order to receive a certain rate of high return. None of those things happened here.” However, he added, “Maybe it was mismanaged.”
The Justice Department has not yet commented on the attorneys’ statements.
This is indeed the latest blow in an ongoing battle, which this week also saw Lederer and Ferguson suspended from the Epic Poker League pending the outcome of the DOJ’s action.
Can I just point out that Imrich is a great last name for an attorney...
Post subject: Re: Department of Justice: Full Tilt Poker='Global Ponzi Scheme"
Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 4:48 pm
Unthought Known
Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2009 5:52 pm Posts: 8288
given2trade wrote:
bmacsmith wrote:
i dont understand how this is a ponzi scheme.
Players money was coming in and being funneled to the board illegally. As players wanted to withdraw cash, they had to use "new" cash that was provided by new players. Once everyone wanted to withdraw at once, the scheme failed. That's a ponzi scheme.
The interesting part is that for the last year or so players would deposit money into their Full Tilt account, but since they had no banking abilities the money was credited to their account but was never actually deposited. So the player still had it in their own bank account and was given credit to gamble with it. That's a ponzi scheme falling apart.
Weird dynamic to have watched some of these guys play, and then they turn out to be involved in defrauding the public like this.
_________________ "Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires." -- John Steinbeck
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