I realize the very premise of this thread will be offensive to some and I apologize. I don't mean to suggest that Pearl Jam is a band that is meant to be grown out of, like the teenage metal phase that everybody eventually gets over (blues02 and bmacsmith excluded). But a recent Kevin Davis post in OB got me thinking... it seems to me like we have a pretty solid contingent on RM that has been decrying everything the band's done for the last 7 or so years-- not just musically, but their fan club, merch, business decisions and even the culture surrounding the band. From the general tone of the posts, it looks like what once seemed like an awesome tight-knit community of music lovers is now portrayed as more of a gathering of out-of-touch dorks.

And I wonder, what changed, exactly? The shift is certainly more than musical. Based on the overall tone of the posting in this message board, you'd think post-2005 Pearl Jam were an entirely different band, with only a passing resemblance to everything that came before. How much of this "change" is really coming from the band, and how much of it is just fans growing tired and moving on to other things, yet still posting here out of habit?

I guess the real barometer for whether you've outgrown the band is how you feel about the records you used to love. If you still feel as strongly about those records as you once did, and not just out of nostalgia, it's safe to say the band is just moving in a different direction, resulting in your lack of interest. If your love for those old records has faded some or disappeared completely, it's fair to say you're no longer a Pearl Jam fan. You've effectively shuffled loose the PJ coil. You've outgrown them, they now annoy you and you should probably stop posting in PJ Chat, lest you get in the way of others' appreciation.

For myself... I wouldn't say I've outgrown the band. I'm still very much a fan of that 1994-2005 period, where there was a murkiness, a sense of mystery, a darkness to their music that seems to have completely disappeared, and been replaced by a different spirit altogether. I actually kind of liked Backspacer, but it's not what I look for in a Pearl Jam album. Also, I've come to slightly dislike their approach to live shows. When they came to Argentina, which has only happened twice in the band's career, I didn't go. I didn't even make an effort to go. I just couldn't be bothered at all. And that surprised me.

So while I wouldn't say I've outgrown Pearl Jam, it does feel like we're pulling in different directions. But I remain open and optimistic that I will be swayed back into the fold. I will listen to the next Pearl Jam album hoping for the best, not preparing to bitch about it online.

Have you outgrown Pearl Jam?

Interesting idea Jorgé. The other day i wondered was it weird that I was more anxious about whatever artwork accompanies the next record, more than i was anxious about liking the songs or not.
This got me wondering, do I automatically give the songs/band a pass? is that how i roll? made me wonder, is PJ 'what i do' musically and if so, is it a given that i'll buy it and support them unquestioningly?

I've been thinking about all this a lot and haven't come up with anything other than answers with two sides to them, so i'll think on it and come back.

Cool topic. bravo.

heavens no

I am less passionate about all their music than I once was, simply because there is now a lot more music in my life than there used to be, and I have less time for music in general. But their old stuff still touched me in a way no other music did, and I am simply more excited for a new PJ album than a new record by anyone else, and it tends to awaken my love of all the previous stuff for a while. So not really.

I don't know that I like the phrase outgrown here, but your point is well taken. Interestingly enough, with some people (certainly not all, probably not even most)I think the hostility to post 2005 PJ (the entity as a whole, not just the music) is the opposite of growth and reflects instead a desire to freeze the band/music in a moment in a time.

One of the things that complicates Pearl Jam for anyone reading this is Red Mosquito. If I don't feel like listening to REM for a while I just don't listen to them, and that's that. When I feel like it again I will. But the nature of this community is such that (at least in this forum) you are engaging the band and their music all the time, even if you don't feel like it. So there is no real space for an organic break period or the ability to walk away and come back without having to overthink what you are doing.

I think I like them musically more the last few years then I did back in 1996-2000. Don't get me wrong here, those are solid albums from that period, but I was between 16-20, back in those days and I just didn't click right away with No Code & Yield. I think Binaural brought my love back for the band and Riot Act was solid to me. I am a big fan of there self titled album and liked backspacer.

As far as there dealing with the media and being more happy, hey no one stays miserable fucks forever or remains true to not selling out. Everyone eventually sells out to an extent. I think that have walked the line pretty well.

In regards to there fan club and the abomination of a fan club manager known as Tim Beer-man. I could go on forever and write everything we already know so I'll just say thing. The fan club is probably run worse then my beloved New York Mets.

Excellent Post. I agree with all of this except I do not know anything about the Mets.

This is the case for me, I don't at all feel like I've outgrown the things I loved about the band from 1993 to 2004 or so. I feel increasingly disconnected from almost everything to do with the band since then, a little more each year, and I think they really just want something different from the band than I do at this point. Hey, that's not really a big deal though, it's their band - I'm positive they're doing exactly what they want to do, even if I don't enjoy it at all.

I'm not yet at the point where I'd pass on seeing them play live or not bother listening to a new album, I'll approach the upcoming one (as I always have) with an entirely open mind.

Despite my internet persona, I actually used to really enjoy music. I, in large part, used these forums to find some new bands. Now admittedly, I could never get as deep into it as so many of you. I enjoyed it, but it was never my passion. This is actually a little bit of an adjunct to the discussion in the movies thread. Someone who really likes music is happy to have it fill up their free moments. someone who LOVES music makes free moments to fill with music. I was always the former, but as I've gotten older (and had kids) I want so many more of those free moments to be quiet and peaceful. I haven't outgrown Pearl Jam (i've always had issues with how they, and they're club, operate), i just don't have much of a desire to listen to anything at this point.

I would say I haven't really outgrown the Pearl Jam music that I like. I just haven't gotten into some of the newer stuff. Although surprisingly S/T is really coming around for me.

Just to add to that discussion that Skitch and stip have opened up, in my case I definitely make time to listen to music. Though my life is a great deal busier now than it was a decade ago, it's never once occurred to me to cut back on listening to music - it's always meant so much more to me than something to fill free moments.

If anything, I think I listen to more and have a deeper (and wider) appreciation of music than I have at any other time in my life.

I still like at least half or three fifths of their catalogue spanning between Ten and Riot Act. I came in around Avocado and yes I think there are days/moods when especially Life Wasted captures everything that can be done right in a modern rock songs but overall... I fucking hate Avocado/Backspacer. They tend to do Big Wave-songs that end up on the other end of the spectrum and captures everything that's rotten and stale in rock music. I totally blame the bands latter days hailing of The Ramones and think they should probably look towards Television for moral and musical support.

Everything they put out as a band post-Riot Act is totally rubbish and they destroyed everything good and delicate about the Speed of sound (very good song) demo. I think they're brilliant at best and I'd like to see more of their "experimental side" (I know we all agreed that there is nothing experimental to Pearl Jam but you catch my drift!?) such as In my tree and Nothing as it seems. Short rock songs are okay as well but then they have to have a certain quality like Brain of J or Do the Evolution (undoubtedly one of the songs that have aged best). The slow gentle songs like off he goes, indifference or low light are among my favorites and I still like them to this day. That's why I'm saddened by the bands lack of interest in creating music with a sense of integrity.

I'm ready to go online and ba hating day ONE when the new album arrives if it sucks. Of the earth got my hopes up though.

A ridiculous statement. Just because it doesn't appeal to you doesn't mean they willingly release albums they arent interested in and haven't laboured over. No band does that.

you mean except for Pearl Jam?

whatever do you mean?

No. I haven't "outgrown" them, but their music goes in and out of rotation from time to time, depending on my musical mood.

But I probably listen to at least one PJ song every day or every other day.

Part of it for me is that it begins and ends with the music. I'm certainly not above getting periodically miffed about those other things, at least to the extent that they affect me personally, but in the end I don't care. I don't care how bad their fan club is--I just won't join it. I don't care how many big box chains they cut exclusive deals with--hell, I actually kind of like shopping at Target. I don't care how many Pearl Jam lunchboxes or zippo lighters they advertise on their website--I don't have to buy them if I don't want them. I respect not wanting to turn a blind eye to offensive business practices, but I will never understand an individual's requirement of a rock band not to deviate from that individual's own cloistered ideals of what that band should be, from a non-music standpoint. My relationship with Pearl Jam--and with all bands--exists between me and the CD's on my shelf, and between me and the concerts I attend. I'm a fan of music, not business, so when I'm listening to music that's what I try to focus on.



This pretty much sums up my experience entirely, though I do think getting married and having children has changed the way I approach listening and evaluating, in that it feels like so much less hinges upon it. I feel like I take so much more away from it now, intellectually and spiritually--if not with the same raw emotionality I did when I was a teenager. Part of it is that I think I've become pretty adept at understanding my own tastes, which cuts significantly down on the amount of time spent listening at length to things I ultimately end up deeming a waste of time. The price I pay for that is that I no longer discover new bands at the rate I once did, but it's absolutely enriched the overall experience.

As for Pearl Jam itself, I went through a phase from 2004-2006 or so where I drifted pretty significantly away from their music. I'd still cite them as my favorite band, but I was discovering so many other things--musical and otherwise--that keeping up with the day-to-day minutiae of the band just wasn't something that interested me. I liked "S/T" and got excited for its release, but my relationship to it was very different, a lot more detached, than it had been in the past. By 2007, I'd gotten engaged, and my life was moving in a significantly different direction than it had been for the previous few years. I picked up the "Live at the Gorge" box set on a whim when it came out, and was surprised how much it reminded me how much fun I used to have being a fan of this band. Over the next six months I downloaded probably 30-35 shows from the '06 tour and probably 30-35 more from other tours, and found myself not only enjoying the band more than I had in years, but discovering bundles of things from their past that I'd missed during the days of snail-mail trading and hard-copy bootleg-buying.

By the time "Backspacer" came out, I was married, had a child and was expecting two more, and my headspace was much closer to what I described two paragraphs ago. "Backspacer" ended up my favorite album of 2009, which I'm more than prepared to concede probably had more than a little do with the fact that it was simply "Pearl Jam's new album"--and while I don't mean to suggest that I would have simply defaulted it to the top of the list regardless of how I felt about it, the fact that it was by the band I loved and understood more than any other probably did predispose me to liking it more than I may have otherwise. For the most part, I'm prepared to embrace that bias. More and more I'm coming to appreciate the advantages of having that kind of relationship with the bands I love, as opposed to having my critic switch in the "on" position at all times so that I can make sure my year-end list is as objective and well-rounded as possible. If nothing else, it's more fun for me, which is ultimately what I care about.

I feel the same way. One of things that always appealed to me about the band was that sense of mystery. I think the internet can be blamed for a lot of that disappearing. But, also the guys' attitudes have probably changed as they became more comfortable with success. They don't need to be a band. Some of that hunger, I believe, is gone.

Regardless, I wouldn't say I've outgrown them, but I definitely don't have the same passion for the band of the present as I do for the band pre 2004. I look forward to each new album and remain hopeful they still have some of that magic.

Have you ever seen them live? If not (or at least recently), how can you judge their live shows? After Backspacer, I admit I was getting a little down on PJ, and honestly wasn't as excited about their future as usual. But I saw them in Cleveland and was blown away. I really liked Uke Songs and the most recent crop of boots is amazing. One of the most intriguing things that I've heard is that Vedder interview on the SA tour, where he says how the Backspacer "approach" eventually yields inferior results. For me, the mystery and intrigue of this band always stemmed first and foremost from Vedder, and I'm sort of re-convinced that this is his passion, and that PJ is simply following the trend that all 20-some year artists take, which involves failed experiments, periods of seemingly lost creatitivity, etc. I think that the intensity with which people like Vedder feel music is so strong that it can never be diminished, and that the promise is always there of something extradorinary being created. Heck, I still think U2 have it in them to create something mindblowing again, and can't see the day when I won't be super excited when I hear that they are coming out with a new record, even if chances are that it will suck.

I find I have outgrown a deep and abiding passion for music in general. Not that I don't enjoy music, but it's importance in my life is not what it used to be. As others have said, I am much less likely now to make time exclusively for music--whether that means going to concerts, listening to something new, or just taking the time to sit and really focus on something.

But in terms of the music I do listen to, Pearl Jam remains at the top and the idea of a new album from them or the opportunity to go to one of their live shows drives me more than would such offerings from any other act.

yes. although ill go see them if they ever play texas or ohio again.