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 Post subject: Re: 2012 bootlegs
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 6:13 am 
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spenno wrote:
62strat wrote:
This conversation aside it just seems as though nothing tickles your fancy unless its technically sound. and technically does not refer specifically to music.

I don't begin to understand what you're getting at here.

62strat wrote:

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 bootlegs
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 6:58 am 
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theplatypus wrote:
spenno wrote:
62strat wrote:
This conversation aside it just seems as though nothing tickles your fancy unless its technically sound. and technically does not refer specifically to music.

I don't begin to understand what you're getting at here.

62strat wrote:


uh, yea, duh. Thats confusing to you, Sir theplatypus?


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 Post subject: Re: 2012 bootlegs
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 2:14 pm 
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I think the point being made is that even though the live experience is still good in most cases, the actual performance (particularly the singing) has deteriorated. Whereas I would listen to an old boot like Melbourne 95 or Verona 00 as much as a regular CD, I don't really find anything interesting in the current bootlegs and I am distracted by the vocals.

The major problem is that Pearl Jam was defined by Ed's vocals and without them a song that used to be great is now only good or average. Mike has never really developed as a soloist which could have helped them at this stage. I passed on them in Manchester but saw Ed solo - until they take a new approach to their live shows its not for me anymore.


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 Post subject: Re: 2012 bootlegs
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 2:26 pm 
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The only other approach available to them would to standardise the setlists every night. None of us want that do we?

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 bootlegs
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 2:36 pm 
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leopold wrote:
I think the point being made is that even though the live experience is still good in most cases, the actual performance (particularly the singing) has deteriorated. Whereas I would listen to an old boot like Melbourne 95 or Verona 00 as much as a regular CD, I don't really find anything interesting in the current bootlegs and I am distracted by the vocals.

The major problem is that Pearl Jam was defined by Ed's vocals and without them a song that used to be great is now only good or average.





Certainly on the boots, but like I've argued, the boots do not capture the intangibles in his voice effectively, and give the appearance of a greater deterioration than is there. And I'm not talking about the intangibles of the SHOW, I am speaking only about his voice. part of what makes him special as a singer simply doesn't record for whatever reason (at least in this environment). It just used to matter less. But hell, even the good boots before the start of the long decline don't capture them. it's just that there is enough other good stuff there for it to matter less.

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 bootlegs
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 5:00 pm 
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dimejinky99 wrote:
The only other approach available to them would to standardise the setlists every night. None of us want that do we?


The amount of wear-and-tear doesn't match the actual age, is the thing, but a lot of that has to do with grace. Some people can yell and howl and play crazy shows well into their 60's or even 70's. If you aren't one of them, that's fine. It's not required. It's not even expected. Age is a universal truth. It's an inevitability. And there are avenues to maintaining available to you.

This band passed the fulcrum moment from rawk and volume to exploration and atmospherics years ago, and they just refuse to see it. The first half of every new record is always "See? See how we can still do this?" And the answer, often as not, is "Not really." Great bands expand rather than excise. Great bands redefine rather than codify. More than anything, great bands make records that leave you wondering what is going to happen next...and then great bands make something next.


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 Post subject: Re: 2012 bootlegs
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 5:13 pm 
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McParadigm wrote:
dimejinky99 wrote:
The only other approach available to them would to standardise the setlists every night. None of us want that do we?


The amount of wear-and-tear doesn't match the actual age, is the thing, but a lot of that has to do with grace. Some people can yell and howl and play crazy shows well into their 60's or even 70's. If you aren't one of them, that's fine. It's not required. It's not even expected. Age is a universal truth. It's an inevitability. And there are avenues to maintaining available to you.

This band passed the fulcrum moment from rawk and volume to exploration and atmospherics years ago, and they just refuse to see it. The first half of every new record is always "See? See how we can still do this?" And the answer, often as not, is "Not really." Great bands expand rather than excise. Great bands redefine rather than codify. More than anything, great bands make records that leave you wondering what is going to happen next...and then great bands make something next.


i agree with some things in this post...specially the part were you talk about exploration and atmospherics....i do believe Backspacer was an exploration too.
Still, PJ is a great band for me, and im wondering what is going to happen next. Guess we all are.


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 Post subject: Re: 2012 bootlegs
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 6:40 pm 
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I was going to buy Atlanta, but Rebar was kind of a dick to me that day. It kinda ruined the show for me.

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 bootlegs
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 6:51 pm 
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McParadigm wrote:
dimejinky99 wrote:
The only other approach available to them would to standardise the setlists every night. None of us want that do we?


The amount of wear-and-tear doesn't match the actual age, is the thing, but a lot of that has to do with grace. Some people can yell and howl and play crazy shows well into their 60's or even 70's. If you aren't one of them, that's fine. It's not required. It's not even expected. Age is a universal truth. It's an inevitability. And there are avenues to maintaining available to you.

This band passed the fulcrum moment from rawk and volume to exploration and atmospherics years ago, and they just refuse to see it. The first half of every new record is always "See? See how we can still do this?" And the answer, often as not, is "Not really." Great bands expand rather than excise. Great bands redefine rather than codify. More than anything, great bands make records that leave you wondering what is going to happen next...and then great bands make something next.


Great post McP.

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 bootlegs
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:52 pm 
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dimejinky99 wrote:
McParadigm wrote:
dimejinky99 wrote:
The only other approach available to them would to standardise the setlists every night. None of us want that do we?


The amount of wear-and-tear doesn't match the actual age, is the thing, but a lot of that has to do with grace. Some people can yell and howl and play crazy shows well into their 60's or even 70's. If you aren't one of them, that's fine. It's not required. It's not even expected. Age is a universal truth. It's an inevitability. And there are avenues to maintaining available to you.

This band passed the fulcrum moment from rawk and volume to exploration and atmospherics years ago, and they just refuse to see it. The first half of every new record is always "See? See how we can still do this?" And the answer, often as not, is "Not really." Great bands expand rather than excise. Great bands redefine rather than codify. More than anything, great bands make records that leave you wondering what is going to happen next...and then great bands make something next.


Great post McP.

9/10

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 bootlegs
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:31 pm 
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stip wrote:
Certainly on the boots, but like I've argued, the boots do not capture the intangibles in his voice effectively, and give the appearance of a greater deterioration than is there. And I'm not talking about the intangibles of the SHOW, I am speaking only about his voice. part of what makes him special as a singer simply doesn't record for whatever reason (at least in this environment). It just used to matter less. But hell, even the good boots before the start of the long decline don't capture them. it's just that there is enough other good stuff there for it to matter less.

I'm rather sceptical that this is the case; like I said above, I tend towards thinking it's a mixture of volume and subconscious adjustment that makes Vedder's voice sound better in person. I feel as though the kind of intangible essence you think is missing is something largely subjective and, as such, will never be able to be recorded. The bootlegs are an accurate reflection of what is actually there, not what we process with our ears somewhere in a cavernous concert hall. Ed's voice sounds strikingly stronger on the older bootlegs because what was actually coming out of his throat was a better musical performance.

And yes, awesome post, McP.


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 Post subject: Re: 2012 bootlegs
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:31 pm 
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McParadigm wrote:
The first half of every new record is always "See? See how we can still do this?" And the answer, often as not, is "Not really."


Some quality posting today. Well done people.


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 Post subject: Re: 2012 bootlegs
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 11:15 pm 
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Its almost as if they regret growing up and maturing as early as they did. now trying to make up for lost youthful angst. man, that no code-riot act stretch was fantastic.


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 Post subject: Re: 2012 bootlegs
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 12:59 am 
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¡B! wrote:
I was going to buy Atlanta, but Rebar was kind of a dick to me that day. It kinda ruined the show for me.

well played.

6.5/10

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 bootlegs
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 1:25 am 
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I'd have sex with McP, but only if he was drunk.

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 bootlegs
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:34 am 
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Rebar wrote:
¡B! wrote:
I was going to buy Atlanta, but Rebar was kind of a dick to me that day. It kinda ruined the show for me.

well played.

6.5/10


You're such a softie. :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 bootlegs
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:36 am 
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Quote:
I'd have sex with McP, but only if he was drunk


I've only had one bottle of red tonight, but I'm game so long as our tender loving talk is filled with promises of nominal impedance, frequency response, and intermodulation distortion.

And nothing in the butt, thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: 2012 bootlegs
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:38 am 
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McParadigm wrote:
Quote:
I'd have sex with McP, but only if he was drunk


I've only had one bottle of red tonight, but I'm game so long as our tender loving talk is filled with promises of nominal impedance, frequency response, and intermodulation distortion.

And nothing in the butt, thanks.


Alright, I'm going to start drinking now.

What about my butt?

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 bootlegs
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:50 am 
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read into this as you will:

Spoiler: show
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 Post subject: Re: 2012 bootlegs
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:55 am 
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You're making me blush.

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