Faith 'War' Rages in U.S., Judge Says

Tue Apr 26, 7:55 AM ET

By Peter Wallsten Times Staff Writer

WASHINGTON — Just days after a bitterly divided Senate committee voted along party lines to approve her nomination as a federal appellate court judge, California Supreme Court Justice Janice Rogers Brown told an audience Sunday that people of faith were embroiled in a "war" against secular humanists who threatened to divorce America from its religious roots, according to a newspaper account of the speech.

Brown's remarks come as a partisan battle over judges has evolved into a national debate over the proper mix of God and government and as Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist (R-Tenn.) ponders changing the chamber's rules to prevent Democrats from using procedural moves to block confirmation of conservative jurists such as Brown.

Her comments to a gathering of Roman Catholic legal professionals in Darien, Conn., came on the same day as "Justice Sunday: Stop the Filibuster Against People of Faith," a program produced by evangelical leaders and simulcast on the Internet and in homes and churches around the country. It was designed to paint opponents of Bush's judicial nominees as intolerant of believers.

Though unrelated to that program, Brown's remarks sounded similar themes.

"There seems to have been no time since the Civil War that this country was so bitterly divided. It's not a shooting war, but it is a war," she said, according to a report published Monday in the Stamford Advocate.

"These are perilous times for people of faith," she said, "not in the sense that we are going to lose our lives, but in the sense that it will cost you something if you are a person of faith who stands up for what you believe in and say those things out loud."

A spokeswoman for the California Supreme Court, Lynn Holton, said no text was available because "it was a talk, not a speech." Brown's office did not dispute the newspaper's account.

The Advocate quoted Brown as lamenting that America had moved away from the religious traditions on which it was founded.

"When we move away from that, we change our whole conception of the most significant idea that America has to offer, which is this idea of human freedom and this notion of liberty," she said.

She added that atheism "handed human destiny over to the great god, autonomy, and this is quite a different idea of freedom…. Freedom then becomes willfulness."

Brown's remarks drew praise Monday from one of the nation's most prominent evangelical leaders, Gary Bauer, president of the socially conservative advocacy group American Values.

"No wonder the radical left opposes her," Bauer wrote in an e-mail to supporters. "Janice Rogers Brown understands the great culture war raging in America. That is why the abortion crowd, the homosexual rights movement and the radical secularists are all demanding that Senate liberals block her confirmation."

Brown was first nominated by President Bush in 2003 to the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit, an appointment considered a steppingstone to the U.S. Supreme Court. She has emerged as one of the president's most controversial judicial nominees — and one of the conservative movement's favorite examples of Democratic delays.

The nominations of Brown and nine other conservatives have been central to a bitter fight that both sides view as a precursor to an ideological brawl over replacing Supreme Court Chief Justice William H. Rehnquist, who has cancer.

Democrats blocked Brown's confirmation by the full Senate, charging that she held extremist views that interfere with her ability to render objective judgments. She has a history of delivering provocative speeches.

Democrats have questioned speeches in which she called the New Deal the "triumph of our socialist revolution." She has described herself as a "true conservative" who believes that "where the government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates…. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible."

Questioned in 2003 about her comments, Brown conceded that she was blunt when addressing conservative audiences.

"I don't have a speechwriter," she said. "I do these myself. And it speaks for itself."

As the article describing Brown's remarks was circulated Monday on websites and in e-mails, one advocacy group opposing Bush's nominees charged that her remarks were a timely reminder of why the California judge should not be promoted.

"It's so shocking that in the middle of this battle she would say such extraordinarily intemperate things," said the Rev. Barry W. Lynn, executive director of Americans United for Separation of Church and State.

Brown's comments came at a breakfast following the Red Mass, an annual spring gathering of lawyers, judges and other legal professionals sponsored by the Roman Catholic Diocese of Bridgeport, Conn.

In previous years, speakers at the diocese's breakfast have included former appellate Judge Robert Bork, whose nomination to the Supreme Court was defeated by the Senate in 1987, and Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia.

Two religious leaders who heard Brown speak Sunday had only praise. The Rev. Michael R. Moynihan, pastor of a church in Greenwich, Conn., and an organizer of the Red Mass, said he was impressed with Brown.

"She caused all of us to reflect more profoundly on the intersection between law and morality, and on the role of religion in shaping those virtues and values, which are crucial to our democratic way of life," said Bishop William E. Lori, the head of the Bridgeport diocese, who invited Brown to address the group.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nice to see a fair and partial federal judge making comments like these. So, the atheist's idea of freedom is not what American freedom is, eh judge? Next thing you know they'll be calling atheists terrorists. I just don't understand how the religious right, despite controlling all three branches of government, can claim they are being oppressed. Give me a motherfucking break.

hahahahaha
perhaps one of these supposed 'people of faith' should change places with an openly gay person for a few days and find out just how perilous their life is these days in comparison.

Good Lord, but this gets tiring to watch unfold. I almost hope the religious right gets everything they want, have all the power their hearts desire, have open prayer meetings in school, ban all abortions, homosexuality, and satanic non-believers from the society so they can see how much damage it will do to the fabric of the country. See how quickly the society will fall to ruins with no difference of opinion or beliefs, no diversity, no one different from themselves, no one else to turn their rage towards either. Where will it all go? How long before the religious right begins to turn on itself once everything else it looks at as bad is outlawed or destroyed?
Don't static systems tend to collapse at some point?
I start to think about Germany right before WWII, wasn't part of the Nazi party's propaganda about how good Germans had to fear the dirty heathen Jews?

http://www.theskyiscrape.com/phpBB2/viewt ... 835#360835

C'mon, towelie, you know we've been on this for more than a week now.

It's not a war on faith, it's a war on fundamentalism.

Shutup you Godless heathen. I'll make my own gosh-darn thread whenever I want.

Well put.

*cocks shotgun

This is a war? It gets scarier and scarier from these psychopaths.

Yea, they are so persecuted what with the entire U.S. government being controlled by the right-wing and the election decided on morality.

Are ya'll just surprised that these people aren't bowing out anymore and actually standing up for what they believe in?

Or is it something else?

What are you talking about, bowing out? They control the government; they haven't bowed out of jack shit. As for standing up for what they believe in, I'm of the mind that all this neo-Christian bullshit is just a way that the Republican party found to manipulate the poor white trash in this country and get them to vote for them despite their policies that tend to favor the rich. That and security, and people have thrown their own self-interests out the door. So be it. As long as this country is free enough for me to get the fuck out once these nutjobs have complete control, I won't have to start shooting.

One of my best friends (and devout christian) tried to pass this bullshit argument off on me a couple of weeks ago. As I told him, you're full of shit if you really think that's a valid argument. Nobody is saying that christians can't believe whatever they want to believe. They can go to church and worship whatever they want to worship. That's all fine and I could care less. But it's trying to force these beliefs into government, and thus onto people who may not have the same beliefs, is where the problem starts Just because the majority of Americans are christians does not mean that we should rule by christian rule. That's exactly what America is not supposed to be.

As an atheist, I was also offended by her comment about atheist freedom not going the correct kind of freedom. This is exactly what aggravates me about some christians...they feel their way is right and will take no exceptions. Like I said, you can believe whatever you want and practice whatever worship rituals you want in your own church, but keep that shit away from me.

Thirdly, my christian friend is also a huge fan of Dr. James Dobson. He likes some of the work he's done with this "Focus on the Family" group and apparently has grown up listening to him. Which is all fine and dandy, I'm sure Dr. Dobson has done some good things in his life. But as I told him, I can't help but think he's pigeonholing himself into a winless situation. Dobson's aligning himself with scumbags who are using his influence on christians to secure votes...people who would not hesitate to dump him and make him their scapegoat when things go wrong. Either Dobson is completely unaware of this, or he deems the risk worthy in order to give christians a tighter grasp on america.

Ehh, that's probably a little rant-ish. I hope it at least made a little sense.

you sir are dead on it. The "war" so to speak is one of the primary reasons this country was founded in the first place.

The fundamentalist extreme right wing christians want a Theocracy. They want to use the police power of government to force you to believe what they believe.

One needs only to look at the Taliban to see that we as US citizens Christian or not do not desire a Theocracy. Differences make us what we are.

A completely different way to look at the situation is mine I guess.

How weak would ones faith have to be that one would have to force me to believe as they did?

Getting fundamentalist Christians to vote a certain way is unbelievably simple. Hit a few key points that tug at thier fundamentalist beliefs and hammer it. Bush can do whatever he wants. As long as he is portraied as a "Godly" man and is presented that way, IE (slap a fish on the back of Air Force 1 wear a cross.....) they will vote for him.

Playing on predjudices is the easiest way to control the masses

exactly my sentiments.

Damn this guy is good.

http://rudepundit.blogspot.com/

that guy is awesome

It's the feeling that soon, they will begin the cleansing so desperately needed in this country...

I am Agnostic, but I truly think you guys diserve these ass holes. Left wing activists created them. People like Jerry Fallwell can't do much without ammunition, and the left has been a constant supplier for his war machine. I mean look at this thread. Many of you are making it quite clear that you think they are a bunch of ignorant fucks. It is a war of words at the very least.

These peoples fundamental beliefs are being attacked and brought to court all over the nation, and it is radicalizing the stay at home mom who used to read the local papers and host block parties in Middle of Nowhere USA. For every good arguement the left makes concerning issues such as abortion or homosexuality you come up with some lame shit like the Ten Commandments and the Pledge of Alliegance to attack, or a fucking Christmas (Holiday) tree or Easter (Rabbit Egg) parade. As if someone somewhere is going to be exposed to these things by our government and withen months the slippery slope will lead to Athiest death camps in Wyoming.

The Neo Cons are getting crazier, but so is the hardline left, and you two have torn yourselves so far apart that you can't even communicate anymore. Mitigating yourself to the Anti-Bush and Anti-Fatih party isn't going to accomplish anything, and it is why liberalism has become completly stagnant in America. Start concentrating on the bigger issues that liberals have championed throughout history, and the Neo Cons will go away on their own. Hell the Republicans will get rid of them because we are sick and tired of them to. But if you want to keep attacking them, assuming they are ignorant redneck trash then go right on ahead. Because they are better mobolized then you, they actually agree with each other, there are more of them, and they will shove it straight up your ass and this trend will only get worse.

You're not really 5 years old, are you.

*Stands and applauds!

Perfect.....thank you C4. This is the voice of reason.