Abuse from British and American customers is driving increasing numbers of Indian call centre workers from their jobs, defeated by the strain of handling persistent rudeness.
Irate customers was cited as one of the main industry stress factors in a recent survey of call centre staff and some organisations have begun employing psychiatrists and counsellors to help employees to cope.
'I've had people tell me, "Back off, Paki, and don't call me again", said Eugene, 27, whose former employer, Spectrumind, provided an accounts services for BT. 'There was a lot of racist abuse once people detected from our accents that we weren't English. I saw girls reduced to tears by it.'
Pooja Chopra, 29, from Delhi, who spent two years fielding calls for BT Cellnet and America Online, faced similar abuse. 'People would say, "You're a Paki, I don't want to talk to you, pass me to someone who can speak my language".
Workers face a spectrum of rudeness - from sexual harassment to fury at unsolicited sales calls, to open racism. Industry analysts have seen the phenomenon of racist clients grow in recent years, as customers in the UK and the US become increasingly sensitive to the political issue of jobs outsourced to India.
Shyamanuja Das, editor of Global Outsourcing magazine, which published a study on the stress factors triggering call centre resignations, said that hostility from clients was one of the factors which caused workers to quit - 25 per cent of those questioned said client vitriol was a major cause of stress.
'The anger in the West over job losses and fear about offshoring has made this a growing problem. Some people call up with deliberately difficult questions. Most just say things like: "You're from India. You don't know anything. I don't want to speak to you", he said.
Vijay Mukhi, a call centre analyst, said websites have sprung up in the US giving phone numbers of companies which use call centres in India, and listing Hindi swear words to be used to abuse staff. 'When you move jobs away from a country, there's going to be a lot of pent-up frustration which gets let out on Indian workers,' he said.
As staff turnover is a major problem, with some companies battling an annual departure rate of 60-70 per cent, organisations are taking radical steps to help staff to deal with abuse. In recent months some firms have decided to provide psychological support to their workers. Sanjay Salooja's Delhi-based firm, Empower, has 20 trained counsellors who tour the city's largest call centres, providing support to harassed employees.
'Most employees are very young and don't have the skills to allow them to cope with this kind of abuse,' he said. Workers are already feeling the stress of having to work through the night and are under extreme pressure to meet productivity targets. 'They are vulnerable anyway, and an abusive call really knocks confidence. They don't want to take another call for an hour or two, and their performance is impacted.'
The idea of consulting therapists remains taboo in much of Indian society, but the stigma is waning. 'Our research shows that about 50 per cent of workers would like the chance to receive counselling,' Deepal Raheja, one of the programme's psychiatrists, said.
The therapists try to help staff realise that the abuse is not personal and to put things in perspective, he said. 'Somebody I counselled was very upset after a British customer had asked for an address near Trafalgar Square and he had to admit he didn't know where Trafalgar Square was. His customer became very abusive, and the incident really dented his self-esteem,' he said.
Some companies still specify staff must anglicise their names, adopting forenames such as Mary and John, to try to stave off resentment.
There are no unions yet to represent the 350,000 workers in the Indian call centre business, but unionist Gautam Mody, who is trying to launch the first call centre workers' collective, said this was a problem that needed to be addressed urgently abroad. 'Some workers are deeply hurt by this abuse. The issue of xenophobia cannot be resolved from this end; there must be a battle against it in the countries responsible.'
More organisations have started to let staff hang up on persistently rude customers (formerly a sackable offence), after warning them three times to mind their language. Trainers try to help new staff understand the different cultural forms of rudeness they are likely to encounter.
'British customers can be very rude but in a polite way,' Anita Bhuttar, training vice-president of GTL, a Mumbai-based company, said. 'Usually they won't use abusive language but you can tell from the tone of their voice they're angry.'
'I found it difficult to work for British clients,' Pooja Chopra said. 'They wouldn't call you names, but you could hear the hostility in their voices. The US customers were generally much more easy-going.'
I want to feel bad, but I feel worse about jobs being sucked out of my country
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 12:59 am Posts: 18643 Location: Raleigh, NC Gender: Male
Mitchell wrote:
these people aren't sucking the jobs out, american companies are giving them jobs. people shouldn't be mad at them for getting a job.
They should be boycotting the companies that are outsourcing. I had a whole group of friends lose their job to India in the last year. Their entire office was closed, the company waited 3 months and reopend through an Indian contractor. Whee!
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 3:58 am Posts: 2105 Location: Austin
But wait people, every human life is just as important as our own right? It is wonderful that we are spreading the wealth right? Moms and Pops are no more important to me then the billion or so people living in India right? Aye?
I'm starting to feel good about outsourcing. At least I believe the people getting these jobs are actually working hard, and doing their job to support a family, and not bitching about the fact that they can't afford a BMW. Better then I can say for most Americans at this point.
They seem to actually appreciate the jobs, shit they learn one of the most difficult foreign languages just to get them. Once we become less spoiled bitches, I'll start feeling like we are getting screwed on the deal. If we start working for ourselves again, and stop depending on unions, then I will give us the benefit of the doubt.
But on topic, if you are taking a customer support job, or a sales job in a foreign country, and can't speak English, or don't know enough about the situation to benefit anyone, expect to be bitched at. I know a big company here in Austin (DELL) outsources a lot of its customer help services to India, and if I can't yell at Michael himself, I'm going to yell at the ass at the end of the line who doesn't know what they are doing. Actually, I wouldn't do that, I'm to nice, but I would be filled with an inner rage, and I would hope they would sense it and feel bad for being inadequate.
Last edited by C4Lukin on Thu Jun 02, 2005 8:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 12:59 am Posts: 18643 Location: Raleigh, NC Gender: Male
C4Lukin wrote:
But wait people, every human life is just as important as our own right?
So you don't mind if we fire you and move your job elsewhere?
In the shit labor market in the Seattle area, a couple of the friends I have that were laid off have still not found work in their fields after more than a year and are working for barely above minimum wage. Quite a shocker after making nearly $20 an hour. Whiny bitches? Hardly. Working hard to support their family? Yep. Had to sell their car? Yep.
Most of the jobs sent to India are not the BMW jobs. They're tech support, desktop publishing, etc. These are middle of the road tech jobs that this economy NEEDS. The BMW jobs are now Mercedes and Jaguar jobs because they saved all that money firing the Honda jobs for mule and bicycle jobs.
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 3:58 am Posts: 2105 Location: Austin
Athletic Supporter wrote:
C4Lukin wrote:
But wait people, every human life is just as important as our own right?
So you don't mind if we fire you and move your job elsewhere?
In the shit labor market in the Seattle area, a couple of the friends I have that were laid off have still not found work in their fields after more than a year and are working for barely above minimum wage. Quite a shocker after making nearly $20 an hour. Whiny bitches? Hardly. Working hard to support their family? Yep. Had to sell their car? Yep. Most of the jobs sent to India are not the BMW jobs. They're tech support, desktop publishing, etc. These are middle of the road tech jobs that this economy NEEDS. The BMW jobs are now Mercedes and Jaguar jobs because they saved all that money firing the Honda jobs for mule and bicycle jobs.
No I do mind, I'm speaking of the hypocrisy of people who have this Utopian socialist view of the world, and then bitch about things like outsourcing. Out of the left side of their jaw they say "I love the people in India as much as my next door neighbour," outside of the right jaw they say, "God damn corporations for giving foreigners the money and jobs while my neighbor is starving."
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 12:59 am Posts: 18643 Location: Raleigh, NC Gender: Male
C4Lukin wrote:
No I do mind, I'm speaking of the hypocrisy of people who have this Utopian socialist view of the world, and then bitch about things like outsourcing. Out of the left side of their jaw they say "I love the people in India as much as my next door neighbour," outside of the right jaw they say, "God damn corporations for giving foreigners the money and jobs while my neighbor is starving."
I think I misunderstood you at first it happens in this damned place of written word!
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 3:58 am Posts: 2105 Location: Austin
Athletic Supporter wrote:
C4Lukin wrote:
No I do mind, I'm speaking of the hypocrisy of people who have this Utopian socialist view of the world, and then bitch about things like outsourcing. Out of the left side of their jaw they say "I love the people in India as much as my next door neighbour," outside of the right jaw they say, "God damn corporations for giving foreigners the money and jobs while my neighbor is starving."
I think I misunderstood you at first it happens in this damned place of written word!
Don't worry about it. Most my posts are drunken emotional rants, and I don't even know what I was trying to say when I read them the next day. I'll probably completly disagree with what I just wrote when I wake up in the morning.
Outsorcing has become a problem worldwide, one can defend it, but the problem is that taking the high moral ground doesn't get your job back in some areas.
Ok so many economists say that many new jobs are being created at the same time in poorer countries, which is great, but how about those who lost their jobs?
It matters how outsorcing is done, if the company needs to take urgent action to reduce costs to save the company ok, but it's harder to argue for outsourcing if the corporation is making profits, is not facing significant competitor pressures, and is making people redundant without a valid reason.
I don't think anything can be done to reverse the situation, facilitating this activity is a primary item on the global free-trade agenda promoted by America and Europe.
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 4:56 pm Posts: 19957 Location: Jenny Lewis' funbags
I'm really conflicted about this issue. On the one hand, i worked in the call centre industry for a year and a half and watched 2 jobs that i worked hard at get pulled out from under me and sent to India. Luckily for me, the company i worked for was an outsourced company that had several businesses operating under its roof so i was able to transfer to another dept, however i lost my good shifts, i lost my seniority,etc...It was a slow shift in some places, so i got a first hand view of the transition....It is true that the customers were unecessarily rude to the Indian reps, because we would get people on the phone praising us for speaking fluent english.
On the other hand, i hate the industry and will be glad to see it go. Personally i had always had problems with the call center industry moving into town in the first place. I live in an economically depressed part of the country. Most jobs used to be labour jobs in the industrial sector (refinery, shipbuilding, etc...) but a lot of those have moved out and are now replaced by call center jobs that pay half the wage. A wage that you cannot support a family on. $10/hr will get you an apartment and a bus pass and not much else. Its a shitty life. But the employment rate is the same as it was so it looks like everything is OK.
It's fine to speak of a global community and the wonders of capitalism, but how many of you have had friends lose their jobs because a companies bottom line wasn't low enough? And this isn't just call centre jobs either. A few weeks ago a good friend of mine lost his job as an animator for a cartoon series (http://www.bromwellhigh.com/) because Disney figured they could get Indian animators at a fraction of the price. Now my friend is out of work, in a cut throat industry, and he is recently out of school so he has very little to offer a company that a more experienced animator doesnt already have.
All of that aside, i have a few problems with the facts in that article. 90% of what is happening to the reps in India, happens to the reps in North America. We dealt with ALL the same issues except racism. When you deal with tech support issues, people are calling in pissed off, you can't avoid it. People yell and scream and call you every name in the book. You work shitty hours, for very minimal money with all kind of targets and metrics you have to meet. It's an extremely stressful job and i wouldn't wish it on anybody. Working in that industry was the worst employment experience of my life. The article states that the job turnover rate is 60-70%...well it was over 50% at my former employer. Thats a fact of the industry.
Let me just pose this question though...if ultimately it is more beneficial for North American companies to operate their businesses from India (or any other country for that matter), then what will be the end result? The way i see we will end up with 2 sharply divided classes and a VERY hostile environment. Should there be a sense of corporate resposibility? Should the company care that it is abandoning the very economy that built it? Where do you draw the line between the health of the global economy and the health of your local economy? At the very least they should have a long term plan to look out for the bottom line, because if the shift to overseas keeps up, the millions of workers left behind won't have money to spend on Dell computers, or Microsoft software or timeshares or whatever the hell else they are pushing.
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 7:19 pm Posts: 39068 Location: Chapel Hill, NC, USA Gender: Male
How do people even know they're speaking to someone from another country? Don't they train Asians to sound like an American or a Brit on the phone?
I supervised a hotline for 3 years. Everytime someone didn't get the info they wanted they called the operator a foreigner and demanded to speak with me.
Given the level of idiocy that I dealt with on a 1-800 number, I can't imagine the rancor that must come when you're cold calling someone.
I don't know what my point was when I started typing.
_________________ "Though some may think there should be a separation between art/music and politics, it should be reinforced that art can be a form of nonviolent protest." - e.v.
having delt with dells outsourcing on almost a daily basis, id say maybe 25% of the time i got someone on the phone who i didnt have to talk to like they were a 3 year old.
people like to dress it up as racism, but i think its just people dont want to have to speak in one syllable words when describing a problem/defect/issue
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 3:09 pm Posts: 10839 Location: metro west, mass Gender: Male
C4Lukin wrote:
But wait people, every human life is just as important as our own right? It is wonderful that we are spreading the wealth right? Moms and Pops are no more important to me then the billion or so people living in India right? Aye?
I'm starting to feel good about outsourcing. At least I believe the people getting these jobs are actually working hard, and doing their job to support a family, and not bitching about the fact that they can't afford a BMW. Better then I can say for most Americans at this point.
They seem to actually appreciate the jobs, shit they learn one of the most difficult foreign languages just to get them. Once we become less spoiled bitches, I'll start feeling like we are getting screwed on the deal. If we start working for ourselves again, and stop depending on unions, then I will give us the benefit of the doubt.
But on topic, if you are taking a customer support job, or a sales job in a foreign country, and can't speak English, or don't know enough about the situation to benefit anyone, expect to be bitched at. I know a big company here in Austin (DELL) outsources a lot of its customer help services to India, and if I can't yell at Michael himself, I'm going to yell at the ass at the end of the line who doesn't know what they are doing. Actually, I wouldn't do that, I'm to nice, but I would be filled with an inner rage, and I would hope they would sense it and feel bad for being inadequate.
Your entire statement means a lot to me. India is a democratic and extremely overpopulated country. The current state of their economy can't really pay well for those well educated. I don't see what the problem is as long as they get the job done. I've been called Paki, nigger, etc. since day 1, but at least it was to my face and I grew up in a generation that is prepared to hear these insults. I can't imagine how hurt these people are from taking this shit from a stranger over the phone when all they want to do is help them out.
-Sunny[/b]
_________________ "There are two ways to enslave and conquer a nation. One is by the sword. The other is by debt." -John Adams
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 10:51 pm Posts: 14534 Location: Mesa,AZ
The simple fact is, Americans are doing this to themselves. Every time you shop at Walmart or the other huge corporate conglomerate down the street in order to get the cheapest price, you're supporting outsourcing. In order to provide you the lowest price, they're going to use the cheapest labor. If you don't like outsourcing, buy American. It's as simple as that.
_________________
John Adams wrote:
In my many years I have come to a conclusion that one useless man is a shame, two is a law firm, and three or more is a congress.
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 3:04 am Posts: 484 Location: Westerville, OH
$úñ_DëV|L wrote:
The simple fact is, Americans are doing this to themselves. Every time you shop at Walmart or the other huge corporate conglomerate down the street in order to get the cheapest price, you're supporting outsourcing. In order to provide you the lowest price, they're going to use the cheapest labor. If you don't like outsourcing, buy American. It's as simple as that.
The question is, though...where can you buy American anymore? The Walmarts, Targets, and Meijers have pretty much monopolized the market as far as durable goods go. American companies will continue to outsource their goods production because the bottom line is that it is profitable. 97% of textile products sold in the U.S. are produced in Asia. Go to any store and ask to buy an American made television... there is no such thing. Americans want inexpensive goods. They cannot be made here in America cheaply, so Walmart and others force American companies to move their factorys overseas, so that Walmart can sell their product cheaper. If they do not more, Walmart simply drops the product, which in turn hurts said company because of the market share and accessablilty Walmart has. So how do you buy American anymore?
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 10:51 pm Posts: 14534 Location: Mesa,AZ
Brink of Forever wrote:
$úñ_DëV|L wrote:
The simple fact is, Americans are doing this to themselves. Every time you shop at Walmart or the other huge corporate conglomerate down the street in order to get the cheapest price, you're supporting outsourcing. In order to provide you the lowest price, they're going to use the cheapest labor. If you don't like outsourcing, buy American. It's as simple as that.
The question is, though...where can you buy American anymore? The Walmarts, Targets, and Meijers have pretty much monopolized the market as far as durable goods go. American companies will continue to outsource their goods production because the bottom line is that it is profitable. 97% of textile products sold in the U.S. are produced in Asia. Go to any store and ask to buy an American made television... there is no such thing. Americans want inexpensive goods. They cannot be made here in America cheaply, so Walmart and others force American companies to move their factorys overseas, so that Walmart can sell their product cheaper. If they do not more, Walmart simply drops the product, which in turn hurts said company because of the market share and accessablilty Walmart has. So how do you buy American anymore?
Well, it's true many markets are already destroyed in the US. Maybe it is too late. But the point is, American consumers only have themselves to blame, collectively.
_________________
John Adams wrote:
In my many years I have come to a conclusion that one useless man is a shame, two is a law firm, and three or more is a congress.
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 7:19 pm Posts: 39068 Location: Chapel Hill, NC, USA Gender: Male
Brink of Forever wrote:
$úñ_DëV|L wrote:
The simple fact is, Americans are doing this to themselves. Every time you shop at Walmart or the other huge corporate conglomerate down the street in order to get the cheapest price, you're supporting outsourcing. In order to provide you the lowest price, they're going to use the cheapest labor. If you don't like outsourcing, buy American. It's as simple as that.
The question is, though...where can you buy American anymore?
You gotta shop at those little local shops that the box stores drive out of business! There's no 100% way to buy American, but there's no reason to shop 100% non-American.
_________________ "Though some may think there should be a separation between art/music and politics, it should be reinforced that art can be a form of nonviolent protest." - e.v.
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 4:56 pm Posts: 19957 Location: Jenny Lewis' funbags
B wrote:
How do people even know they're speaking to someone from another country? Don't they train Asians to sound like an American or a Brit on the phone?
A lot of times they do train them to speak with an american accent. But you have to look at the time frame it's done in. Some americans spend their whole life speaking the language and still haven't mastered it. I can't imagine how difficult it must be to learn a new language in a few weeks/months and be expected to speak fluently. I spent 12 years learning french and i still suck at it.
B wrote:
Given the level of idiocy that I dealt with on a 1-800 number, I can't imagine the rancor that must come when you're cold calling someone.
You are right about that. You deal with a lot of crap there. Telemarketing has to be one of the hardest, most stressful and hated jobs in the world. Right up there with professional child maimer.
SuneilKumar wrote:
Your entire statement means a lot to me. India is a democratic and extremely overpopulated country. The current state of their economy can't really pay well for those well educated. I don't see what the problem is as long as they get the job done. I've been called Paki, nigger, etc. since day 1, but at least it was to my face and I grew up in a generation that is prepared to hear these insults. I can't imagine how hurt these people are from taking this shit from a stranger over the phone when all they want to do is help them out.
Sunny, i hope you don't think that is how most people act. I did outsourcing for a company (oh lets call them MICROSOFT) during their transition to India, and i never once encountered any racism, and while i had a lot of customers praise me for speaking english, many getting mad at the outsourcing and getting beligerant, i really never heard any racial slurs.
Most peoples problems arise when the are speaking with someone who's grasp on the language isn't the best, and they themselves can't properly explain their problem so there tends to be a miscommunication where one party usually ends up getting frustrated because of many factors involved, not just the nationality of the person they are speaking with. It's more of a case of "my computers broken, i need to email my cousin lou in topeka, i've been on hold for 2 hours and now this person doesnt understand me". Likely this person was going to explode at whoever ansered the phone regardless of whether they were Indian, American or their own mother.
It's my understanding that outsourcing has been beneficial to many areas of India, so much so that there is a new middle class of people emerging. That is a definate upside. To me its just a shame that you have to take from one to give to another.
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 7:19 pm Posts: 39068 Location: Chapel Hill, NC, USA Gender: Male
mikef wrote:
Right up there with professional child maimer.
What does that pay, and how can I apply?
_________________ "Though some may think there should be a separation between art/music and politics, it should be reinforced that art can be a form of nonviolent protest." - e.v.
It's my understanding that outsourcing has been beneficial to many areas of India, so much so that there is a new middle class of people emerging. That is a definate upside. To me its just a shame that you have to take from one to give to another.
You're right, outsourcing has been beneficial to countries like India, it's helping to spur its economic growth, this is a positive aspect of lowering the barriers of protectionism between countries, but these companies should also consider the communities affected, the families who are simply in the wrong place at the wrong time.
There should be a consensus on trade, simply inhibiting global competition is not an option.
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