what did you think?

i was not caught off guard by the death. i think everyone saw that coming. quite honestly, my only disappointment in this fantastic book was how predictable all of this was.

what will the next book be like is what i'm most interested in? my hope is that it is called harry potter and dumbledore's army. i would love to see a 700 page horecrux hunt involving everyone (especially fred and george) where battles with death eaters happen intermittently.

my prediction is that voldemort will kill draco's family for his indecision on the astronomy tower. draco will remain in his service out of fear, but he will play a key role in helping harry kill voldemort. too star wars? hey, the conversation with ginny at the funeral seemed to be lifted from the end of spiderman, so why not?

oh, and a little meaningless bit - anyone else taken aback by the political statement she made about the "President" in chapter 1?

I thought the whole book was a set up for the final book. I don't think they will close Hogwarts, but I don't think Harry will be at Hogwarts next year, at least not for very long.

I also do not beleive that Snape is a death eater. I think he was acting under Dumbledore's orders to kill him. The sheer fact that Dumbledore froze harry on the spot (instead of lettinghim use his wand to disarm Draco and/or Snape)so he could witness everything is very telling. Harry had to survive, Dumbledore sacrificed himself to make that possible.

Snape also took the unbreakable vow to accomplish Draco's task if Draco were unable to do it. That is what I think Dumbledore and Snape were fighting about in the forest: Snape did not want to kill Dumbledore, rather he wanted to suffer the consequenses of breaking the unbreakable vow..death for himself.

So in the end, I think that Draco will join up with Harry, and I think that Snape will die trying to save Harry. And I think Snape's sacrifice will allow Harry to accomplish his final task of killing Voldemort.


Finally, I think there is something in the locket they recovered from the cave...not a horcrux but maybe a "good" version of a horcrux...maybe even Dumbledore's spirit (like Obi Wan as a force ghost) is in there ready to help.

Great book.

By the time that Harry and Dumbledore got into the big trouble in the cave, I pretty much felt that Dumbledore was going to bite the dust. I didn't feel too uncomfortable with it, because he's lived a long life (I'm still flaming PISSED that Sirius died in Book 5. ). Snape killing him, and the way he did it, will be discussed intently until Book 7. There's still no conclusion as what his true intentions are--though I can't imagine him escaping an Azkaban sentence or death, he may still make a huge difference for the good guys.

Any thoughts on who RAB is? The only theory that I've heard is that it is Sirius's brother, Regulus. But could it be someone we've never heard of?

What did everyone think about the relationship drama? It never has really bothered me, I always crack up when I read it, especially when it involves Ron and Hermione.



I actually thought that Harry's decision there sounded quite Jedi-ish, in the sense that he can't let emotions get him carried away from his mission. Maybe he learned something from Sirius?



I can't imagine Dumbledore going down the path of a Horcrux--I'm thinking the communication will come through the portrait in the Headmaster's office (or Headmistress? Will McGonagall be the permanent successor?)

i completely agree with this. dumbledore trusted snape. he was probably likely to die anyway, and he could have taken snape if he wanted. accio wand! and shit would have been all over. remember when he fucked everyone up in his office at the end of book 5? the obi wan comparison i think fits better here. dumbledore basically put up his lightsaber and let snape do it. as harry said, dumbledore seemed to be pleading when he said sirius. and remember, double d had harry following instructions he didn't want to also.

i think regulus black is a good guess for r.a.b., but it seems too obvious.

as for the relationship stuff, i thought it was great. predictable. i think everyone knew these two couples would form since book 2. i'm glad a woman is writing these though or this part would have been omitted, i'm sure. george lucas could take a hint on character development from ms. rowling.

I'm also under the impression that Snape's "betrayal" was actually forced by Dumbledore. I'm anxiously looking forward to what great feat Snape did to gain Dumbledore's trust way back when. It'll be great to see how that all works out.

I'm curious about what Aunt Petunia really all knows. It's never really been fully explored what the howler "Remember my last" was all about. I think she could play an interesting role in the last book.

I like these comparasins to star wars because these books, like the star wars series, are all about good vs evil.

Though star wars has that "redemption" element to it; i sense no redemption going on for voldemort. Snape surely, but his redemption took place a long time ago (IMO).



I wasn't thinking horcrux for Dumbledore, but some other special magic that might allow him to take on a partial corporeal form.

But I had not thought of his portrait...of course he can continue to give advice as a portrait. But I wonder about the reliability of the portraits...they could be bewitched easily enough I would guess.

One thing that struck me at the end of this book: Harry has lost almost every single adult who has ever cared for him. With the exception of Hagrid, he is truly alone. And Hagrid is more like one of the kids than he is an adult protector.

I am wondering if there will be some grumblings about how depressing these books are becoming? There is a good developmental theory (Bruno Bettleheim) that says that stories like these are good for kids because it allows them to work though grief/loss in their own lives, but I bet there will be a small parental outcry about the overwhelming losses that Harry has suffered.

Loved it. I was expecting DD to die but not in that way. Its pretty obvious that Snape and DD had an agreement. Remember when Snape and DD were arguing and Hagrid overheard, I think that was because Snape was ready to break his vow to Malfoys mom and die for it but DD made him keep the vow.

Another theory I had was as to why DD trusts Snape so much. I think possibly Snape also made another unbreakable vow a long time ago to DD to work for him and denounce Voldemort. It would totally make sense as to why there is no doubt in DD mind that Snape is on their side.

my sister-in-law just rocked me with this idea: the last horecrux is harry's scar. remember, it has been called a "connection" between he and voldemort. he has, in fact, been overwhelmed by feelings of evil because of it (book 5). it would be very matrix-like if it worked out this way, but maybe harry and voldemort both have to die. the prophecy was that they could not co-exist. might it not also be possible that one could not exist without the other?

Damn, you are a fast reader.

I'm intrigued. But since the scar has stopped hurting since the occulemency whatnot, I tend to think this is not the case. Besides, I ge tteh sense that the horcrux needs to be an inanimate object.

But it would be cool.



I think this is great theory. The last surviving member of the pureblood Black family helps Harry get Voldemort...and it would give one more person for Harry to get attached to--then die.

DD said that one of the horcruxes could be the snake Nagini, so it could be an animal or human.

I have also heard the theory about his scar being one but I also heard someone say that Ginny could be a horcrux after Voldemort possesed her in the second book.

oh right...my bad...

I'm now very intrigued by this idea...

***Spoilers**** Ahead*******




Well either Rowling is just saying this to throw us off or we are just want to really believe something that is not going to happen, but if you go to http://www.mugglenet.com and read the interview with J.K. you will see that she has pretty much squashed the rumor that Snape is still good.

Also, it's pretty obvious to me but she finally puts to rest the Hermione/Harry rumor and says that Ron/Hermione are a full fledged couple in the next book.

i still didnt really get why dumbledores arm went black

Well, it was obvious in this one they are headed this way.

So if Snape isn't good, I'm curious why Dumbledore trusted him so much. I hope they clear that up in the last book because I was really leaning toward this theory:

The potion Dumbledore drank in the cave was some sort of enchantment allowing him to die but not die, and that Snape was in on the act. That would explain why DD froze Harry - he needed the world to believe him dead in order to draw Voldemort out.

If Snape is indeed bad, that theory is out the window. I'm very curious to see how the last book plays out, especially with Harry not attending Hogwarts. This will be the first book not revolving around the school year.

I do hope the last book involves the death of Draco, because I've always hated that character. Is it wrong to loathe a fictional character?

He never actually explained that fully.

I posted this in a PM to someone else on another board regarding this book. I wouldn't put it past JKR to downplay Snape's actions in an attempt to fool us. She might not have expected her readership to go back and analyze all of the little things they have to justify him being good. Why not throw us off and put those who believe Snape to be evil into a false sense of security, only to totally take their breath away in the next book. I'm sure I repeat a couple of things already mentioned in this thread...but here goes.


My girlfriend has finished reading the book, but she really doesn't seem keen to discuss the series future in any kind of depth. She loves the books, but just doesn't get into it beyond a surface level.

Snape killing DD. I saw that coming because I'd researched it online. On top of that, I figured that Snape either died to save Harry or killed DD. I forget where I'd read the bit about Snape. I found the bit about DD from a link off of Mugglenet.com.

Here's my theory about Snape...and I very well could be wrong...and I think I touched on it when I PMed you last...

1) Snape was putting on the act of acts in the 2nd chapter. He did not want to take the Unbreakable Vow, but he needed to do something to convince Bellatrix, which would silence his other doubters. He both hesitates when he takes Narcissa's hand and before he agrees to the last part of the vow. Trying to back out of that would raise too many eyebrows. Having someone close to Voldemort is more important than DD staying alive. For as strong as Harry is, he can not take Voldemort if it's a straight out fight.

2) Snape told DD what he had vowed to do, about Malfoy's plan, and that he did not want it to come down to killing DD. DD had turned his life around and prevented Snape from spiraling down. Snape would die to protect DD. DD would not allow this to happen. DD made him promise to follow orders. The hate and revulsion on Snape's face was at what he had to do. It parallels Harry and his reaction to having to force feed DD the poison. With harry, it's hate and repulsed...but, I believe the choice of words is deliberate.

3) When Harry was trying to Crucio Snape, Snape could have incapacitated Harry easily. He could have laid waste to Harry. Why does Voldemort have to have Harry when, in the last book, people were trying to kill him. He doesn't know the full prophecy. Snape was protecting Harry. Even as he taunts harry about his spell use, which he's always done, he is teaching Harry...giving harry the information he needs to be succesful in fighting Voldemort.. Why does he react to Harry calling him a coward? If he were a death eater through and through, he'd gloat at having killed DD. He didn't mention it once. Odd...a little too odd and a little too intentional. DD is the most powerful wizard in the world...even Voldemort fears him and Snape took him out. But, not one word is said by Snape to Harry about DD. Snape is pissed because Harry has no idea just how brave he has had to be...knows nothing of the situation he is in.

4) DD is not afraid of death. He would not plead for his life. If Snape was feeling that much hatred, his Occlumency would have faltered, allowed DD to see what was going on. DD would have been defiant. But guess when DD's attitude changes...the moment Snape shows up. Multiple Death Eaters there and it only changes when Snape shows up. I don't believe DD needs a wand or words to perform magic. If he could take out 2 aurors (granted, one of them was in the OOTP), Umbridge, Fudge, and Weatherby, is it that hard to say that he couldn't take out some spare death eaters and snape? DD was delaying Malfoy becuase he didn't want one of his students to become a murderer. DD cares more for his students. His plan worked perfectly. He froze Harry so that Harry couldn't screw it up...because DD knows that Harry likes to play the hero.

I could be way off. I could be totally wrong. If I am, there will be a good reason why I am.

RAB - Regalus Black. They have an uncle whose name starts with A..Althord or something like that, that's supposedly mentioned in OOTP. JKR touches on this in her interview posted on mugglenet. She doesn't pretend to deny it. If you haven't read those, you should. It's full of interesting stuff. THAT will be interesting.

I hope book 7 is as long as, if not longer than, book 5.

Now someone mentioned RAB being a pure blood wizard helping Harry defeat Voldemort. That is one thing I was angling toward when I said "THAT would be interesting", but couldn't think of how to describe it. That's a very good point to bring up.

I do think Draco will die, and he might very well die on the side of good, but he and harry will still loathe each other.

All I know is that after doing some brief browsing of muggle.net, my obsession with Harry Potter pales in comparison to a lot of people out there. Wow.

I still think something will be revealed that either Snape was good and totally betrayed Dumbledore's trust at the last moment, or he'll redeem himself somehow in the final book.

I've thought Ron & Hermione would be hooking up ever since the second book, now it's just become blatantly obvious. Harry will join up with Jules to roam the earth like in Kung Fu.

You guys totally ruined the ending for me.

Actually the real ending is Hermione runs off with Buckbeak "aka, Witherwings", Ron and Harry proffess their true love for one another and go back to #12 Grimauld place to have threesomes with Kreature, and Dumbledore is not really dead but working at the Dairy Queen down the street from me.