Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 7:19 pm Posts: 39068 Location: Chapel Hill, NC, USA Gender: Male
A judge down here declared that Muslims cannot use the Qur'an to swear in at court proceedings. Religious fundamentalism aside, if someone doesn't believe in the Bible, what good does it do to make them swear on it? If the purpose is to scare someone into telling the truth lest their soul be punished, wouldn't you want them swearing to whatever diety that they believe has control over said soul?
Quote:
N.C. Judges Asked To Decide If Witnesses Can Use Quran
POSTED: 7:23 pm EDT June 20, 2005 UPDATED: 3:09 pm EDT June 22, 2005
CHARLOTTE, N.C. -- State court officers don't plan to act immediately on an Islamic group's request to allow use of the Islamic holy book when administering courtroom oaths, an official said Wednesday.
"There is no (statewide) policy ... and there is no particular plan in place to write a policy," said Dick Ellis, spokesman for the Administrative Office of the Courts. "We haven't gotten to the point yet that something has to be done."
Judges in Guilford County told a Greensboro Islamic center last week that they would not allow people to be sworn in with a Quran rather than a Bible.
In response, the Washington-based Council on Amerian-Islamic Relations asked Tuesday for a statewide policy allowing oaths to be taken on the Quran.
"Eliminating the opportunity to swear an oath on one's own holy text may also have the effect of diminishing the credibility of that person's testimony," CAIR Legal Director Arsalan Iftikhar said in a statement.
CAIR spokesman Ibrahim Hooper said Wednesday that failing to establish a clear policy about the issue will lead to further confusion.
"I think there really does need to be a clear statement one way or the other," Hooper said. "Whether only a single religious text is viewed as holy scripture or whether, in our multi-faith, multi-ethnic society, there are a variety of texts that would be viewed as valid."
Iftikhar said Wednesday that CAIR is not aware of any other state in which a judge has declared an oath sworn on the Quran to be unlawful.
The issue may have been informally discussed at state judges' conferences this week in Wrightsville Beach and Asheville, but State Supreme Court Chief Justice I. Beverly Lake has no plans to issue a memorandum on the topic, Ellis said.
"All of our customers are elected officials," he said. "We don't have those kind of rules for them. ... We don't create a policy unless we're confronted by something."
Allowing judges to decide individually whether to allow Quran oaths may result in constitutional violations, Hooper said.
"For those that would use the Bible exclusively, it clearly indicates that they are promoting one faith over another, and that is not what's allowed by the Constitution," he said
A lawsuit could force action on the issue, Ellis said.
Hooper said his group was still mulling its next move.
"I think it's such a new issue that we would have to examine our options in the case," he said when asked whether litigation was a possibility. "We already have received reports from people who say they have sworn an oath on the Quran in North Carolina."
Copyright 2005 by The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
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Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 7:19 pm Posts: 39068 Location: Chapel Hill, NC, USA Gender: Male
Electromatic wrote:
That's pretty stupid, then again, what would athiests have to swear on?
Their mothers' graves.
_________________ "Though some may think there should be a separation between art/music and politics, it should be reinforced that art can be a form of nonviolent protest." - e.v.
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 11:52 pm Posts: 1058 Location: Hong Kong
all courts don't swear in on the bible. I was in jury duty recently and the clerk would just say "raise your right hand. Do you swear what you are about to say is the truth" Or something like that. There was no bible or so "help me gods".
Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2004 12:47 pm Posts: 9282 Location: Atlanta Gender: Male
petemd wrote:
all courts don't swear in on the bible. I was in jury duty recently and the clerk would just say "raise your right hand. Do you swear what you are about to say is the truth" Or something like that. There was no bible or so "help me gods".
If you aren't a christian then perhaps this is the idiotic equivalent of someone saying..oh no no no, don't swear on your mother's life. I would much prefer you come over here and swear on the life of this salamander.
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Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2005 7:50 pm Posts: 10229 Location: WA (aka Waaaaaaaahhhh!!) Gender: Male
B wrote:
If the purpose is to scare someone into telling the truth lest their soul be punished...
Unfortunately I don't think this theme holds a lot of water when the person is on trial for, say, raping and murdering numerous children. Just doesn't seem to me that they'd be too God-fearing in the first place.
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2005 2:18 am Posts: 3920 Location: Philadelphia
Quote:
How about raising your right hand and saying "I will tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth under penalty of law"
Sounds good to me, but one question that is a bit off topic.. does anyone honestly know why we raise our right hand and not our left. Just wondering, I didn't know if it was so we could cross our fingers on our left, which as we all know, cancels out anything you were saying. It's a fun lying loophole.
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Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 2:27 pm Posts: 1965 Location: 55344
Serjical Strike wrote:
Estranged wrote:
Epyon wrote:
suchpj wrote:
How about raising your right hand and saying "I will tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth under penalty of law"
Exactly what I was thinking. Well said, suchpj.
Ditto.
if they allow this, then what is to stop any other religious group from asking, "what about us?" much easier to just throw religion out of it all together, and without upsetting anybody (besides anarchists, i guess).
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 7:19 pm Posts: 39068 Location: Chapel Hill, NC, USA Gender: Male
petemd wrote:
How do courts decide what they use?
NC law requires swearing upon "the holy scriptures." This one judge says that means the bible. The anti-defamation league says the court should have multiple "holy scriptures" for individuals to choose form. Qur'an, Torah, etc ...
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