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 Post subject: Texas Teaching Bible in Public School ... Poorly.
PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 12:52 pm 
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Bible Course Comes Under Fire
Class Taught In Hundreds Of Public Schools

POSTED: 10:56 pm EDT August 1, 2005
UPDATED: 10:57 pm EDT August 1, 2005

AUSTIN, Texas -- A religious watchdog group complained Monday that a Bible study course taught in hundreds of public schools across the country promotes a fundamentalist Christian view and violates religious freedom.

The Texas Freedom Network also said the course is full of errors and dubious research.

The course is offered by the Greensboro, N.C.-based National Council on Bible Curriculum in Public Schools. They dismissed the critics as a "far left" organization trying to suppress study of a historical text.

The Greensboro council's Web site said its elective course is offered in high schools and junior high schools by more than 300 school districts in 37 states.

A Southern Methodist University biblical scholar asked to review the curriculum found that discussions of science in the course are based on the biblical account of creation and that archaeological findings are erroneously used to support claims of the Bible's historical accuracy.

He said the course also suggests the Bible, not the Constitution, be considered the nation's founding document.

http://www.wral.com/education/4797415/d ... resistible



Texas Freedom Network's Report: http://www.tfn.org/religiousfreedom/bib ... ecsummary/
Quote:
Executive Summary

As a national debate rages over the proper place for religion in public education, more and more public schools are adding elective courses in Bible literacy. When taught with credible materials and from a nonsectarian perspective, such courses are an appropriate and even laudable way to help students learn about history and literature. This report, commissioned by the Texas Freedom Network Education Fund, reveals that what may be the country’s most aggressively marketed and widely used Bible curriculum fails on both counts.

Dr. Mark Chancey, who teaches biblical studies at Southern Methodist University, has authored an in-depth analysis of the National Council on Bible Curriculum in Public Schools’ The Bible in History and Literature (Ablu Publishing, 2005). Based in Greensboro, North Carolina, the National Council on Bible Curriculum in Public Schools (NCBCPS) claims that 1,000 high schools in 36 states are using its course materials (although the organization will not identify those schools). Dr. Chancey’s report shows how the curriculum advocates a narrow sectarian perspective taught with materials plagued by shoddy research, blatant errors and discredited or poorly cited sources. A complete copy of Dr. Chancey’s report is available at http://www.tfn.org.

A Sectarian Perspective
Dr. Chancey’s report reveals a curriculum with a clear sectarian bias that begins with the NCBCPS’s founder and its advisers and finds repeated expression in the pages of the textbook.

* NCBCPS founder Elizabeth Ridenour is a member of the Council on National Policy, an organization comprising some of the nation’s most influential leaders from the religious right and other conservative causes.
* The group’s Board of Directors, Advisory Committee, and endorsers make up a virtual “who’s who” of the religious right, including the American Family Association, Concerned Women for America, Eagle Forum, Focus on the Family, WallBuilders and the Texas Justice Foundation. Many of these groups oppose the separation of church and state and assert the primacy of Christianity in this nation’s government and legal system.
* The NCBCPS curriculum goes beyond a study of the Bible as literature, a summary of traditional views of the Bible, or a description of the importance of the Bible for beliefs and practices of religious groups. It, in fact, improperly endorses the Bible as the “Word of God.” It also attempts to persuade teachers and students to adopt views of the Bible that are common in some conservative Protestant circles but rejected by most scholars.
* The curriculum almost exclusively reflects views held by certain conservative Protestant groups. The role of the Bible in Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox Christian thought receives little attention.
* The curriculum depicts the United States as a historically Christian nation. It even erroneously implies that historians generally believe that the Bible, even more than the Constitution, is the nation’s “Founding Document” [page 243].

A Flawed Curriculum
Dr. Chancey’s report finds that shoddy research, factual errors, and problems with sourcing material also make the curriculum inappropriate for use in any classroom.

Shoddy Research
The curriculum contains many passages in which the developers have distorted history and science, including:

* The curriculum cites a “respected scholar” who claims that archaeological evidence “always confirms the facts of the Biblical record” [page 170]. Yet that “respected scholar” claimed elsewhere to have seen Jesus’ school records in India, records from the lost continent of Atlantis and evidence that Egypt’s Great Pyramid of Giza was used to transmit radio messages to the Grand Canyon thousands of years ago.
* The curriculum uses a discredited urban legend that NASA has evidence that two days are missing in time, thus “confirming” a biblical passage about the sun standing still [pages 116-17].

* The curriculum identifies a creation scientist as an expert and recommends materials from his Creation Evidence Museum to explain the origins of life.

Factual Errors
The curriculum is full of errors (such as the dates of historical events, the identities of key individuals, and the details of biblical stories), faulty logic, unsubstantiated claims and unclear wording, including:

* The curriculum misstates the length of the ancient Jewish calendar [page 14] and the years of the rule of Herod as king of the Jews [pages 193 and 196].
* The answer key to a quiz [page 87] identifies a pharaoh as “Hyksos.” Hyksos was the name of an Asiatic-Semitic people who once ruled Egypt.
* One passage [page 138] asks students to consider how the use of “simple monosyllabic words” in a passage of Old Testament poetry was typical of the Hebrews. Yet while the words in these passages may be monosyllabic in English translations, they are quite different in Hebrew and Greek. How English syllabification provides insight into the ancient Hebrew mindset is not explained.

Inadequate Citation
The curriculum is shockingly lax when it comes to properly crediting sources – inexcusable in any scholarly writing at either the high school or college level. For example, the wording of the sections titled “Pilate” and “Herod,” which constitute pages 195-196 in their entirety, is identical to that of passages from the articles “Pilate, Pontius,” and “Herod the Great” in Microsoft Encarta Encyclopedia 2001. No source is cited. In fact, a considerable amount of the curriculum’s content – Dr. Chancey estimates one-third or more of its pages – is reproduced word for word from its sources (both cited and uncited), often for pages at a time, though the curriculum does not note this or indicate that permission has been granted to reproduce these passages.

Conclusion
The problems detailed by this report – a blatant sectarian bias, distortions of history and science, numerous factual errors, poor sourcing – reveal a curriculum that is clearly inappropriate for the 1,000 public schools the NCBCPS claims use its materials. Indeed, such schools would do far better by considering other Bible literacy curricula for what could be an enriching part of their students’ learning experience.


National Council on Bible Curriculum in Public Schools: http://www.bibleinschools.net/sdm.asp
They don't appear to address the study at all.

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Last edited by ¡B! on Tue Aug 02, 2005 3:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 12:58 pm 
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I think it's very interesting. The bible is a fantastic and historically rich text. Being able to study it is great. Now that being said, some kind of fundamentalist brainwashing would be fun to be in too. If you bring the Bible into the classroom and try to pass it off as fact students can rip you to shreds. The bible is based on faith not fact, so trying to pass it off as fact is laughable and the teacher would look pretty stupid at the end of the day. Kind of like Creationism.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 3:25 pm 
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Electromatic wrote:
I think it's very interesting. The bible is a fantastic and historically rich text. Being able to study it is great.


Agreed. More churches should offer Bible examination courses. That would be a good place for something like that.

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Kind of like Creationism.


* Intelligent Design. :arrow:


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 3:41 pm 
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Even Jesus himself is tired of these threads.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 3:49 pm 
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McParadigm wrote:
Electromatic wrote:
I think it's very interesting. The bible is a fantastic and historically rich text. Being able to study it is great.


Agreed. More churches should offer Bible examination courses. That would be a good place for something like that.

Quote:
Kind of like Creationism.


* Intelligent Design. :arrow:


What if the Quran and Torah were also examined?

Like a religous texts class. So many sayings and practices come from biblical text. I think it can easily be examined without teaching faith.

Ignoring that they exist is kind of silly then again given the strong beliefs attached I can see why this is usually seperated. I can't imagine the classroom fights and teacher discussions among the fundamentalist crowd from various religions.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 3:55 pm 
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Cpt. Murphy wrote:
Even Jesus himself is tired of these threads.


Yeah, we get sick of some of his disciples too.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 3:56 pm 
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And I'm just not surprised.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 3:57 pm 
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Electromatic wrote:
What if the Quran and Torah were also examined?


Do you mean with a sectarian perspective, a flawed curriculum, shoddy research, factual errors, and inadequate citations? I'd imagine there'd be right wing Christians lined up to protest even without those issues. :P

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 4:00 pm 
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Electromatic wrote:
What if the Quran and Torah were also examined?

Like a religous texts class. So many sayings and practices come from biblical text. I think it can easily be examined without teaching faith.


I think that would be interesting, yeah. But I would think that would need to be limited to upper high school levels...a large percentage of students are unable to seperate faith and study like that.

Quote:
Ignoring that they exist is kind of silly


But public schools ignore the existence of all sorts of stuff, simply because it doesn't fit the curriculum or because it would take 8,000,000 years to cover all the information out there. The issue isn't whether or not religious texts could be taught in public school...it's a reality that with funding set the way it is and with the number of classes a student can experience limited, you have to REPLACE something with that class. So what do you want to take out? Life Skills type classes where students fill out job applications and balance checkbooks? Health class? Maybe an AP course...

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I can't imagine the classroom fights and teacher discussions among the fundamentalist crowd from various religions.


These days, you can see those fights played out in some 8th grade Science classes. We don't need Bible class in order to have fundamentalist vs. the world fights. Fundamentalism is on the rise just about everywhere in the world right now, and the struggle for how that plays out in the classroom is only going to get more volatile.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 4:27 pm 
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McParadigm wrote:
Electromatic wrote:
What if the Quran and Torah were also examined?

Like a religous texts class. So many sayings and practices come from biblical text. I think it can easily be examined without teaching faith.


I think that would be interesting, yeah. But I would think that would need to be limited to upper high school levels...a large percentage of students are unable to seperate faith and study like that.

Quote:
Ignoring that they exist is kind of silly


But public schools ignore the existence of all sorts of stuff, simply because it doesn't fit the curriculum or because it would take 8,000,000 years to cover all the information out there. The issue isn't whether or not religious texts could be taught in public school...it's a reality that with funding set the way it is and with the number of classes a student can experience limited, you have to REPLACE something with that class. So what do you want to take out? Life Skills type classes where students fill out job applications and balance checkbooks? Health class? Maybe an AP course...

Quote:
I can't imagine the classroom fights and teacher discussions among the fundamentalist crowd from various religions.


These days, you can see those fights played out in some 8th grade Science classes. We don't need Bible class in order to have fundamentalist vs. the world fights. Fundamentalism is on the rise just about everywhere in the world right now, and the struggle for how that plays out in the classroom is only going to get more volatile.



You're right. I think what is sorely needed is life skills training, how to invest, balance a checkbook, how not to go into massive debt etc. starting in say middle schools.

I want to replace something with life skills classes yes. Perhaps Algebra. I detest algebra. :D


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 4:29 pm 
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B wrote:
Electromatic wrote:
What if the Quran and Torah were also examined?


Do you mean with a sectarian perspective, a flawed curriculum, shoddy research, factual errors, and inadequate citations? I'd imagine there'd be right wing Christians lined up to protest even without those issues. :P



sounds like the majority of my public education without the religious texts involved :D


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 11:23 am 
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I'm not upset that this class is offered. It is an elective after all. I am upset by some of the things found in the book, but apparently it's a big book, and must largely be pretty good if that's all the study could find wrong with it. I'd like to have this book. I think it'd be an interesting read myself.

What exactly is a religious fundamentalist? What is an extremist?

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 11:55 am 
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I must have missed this during my public school years in Texas. I didn't hear about the concept of God in public schools until I went to college, where the basic curriculum was to disprove it. I had a buss. Calculus teach at TCU (TEXAS CHRISTIAN UNIVERSITY) give us a question on a test using calc to disprove the concept of God. I don't believe in God, but I am damn sick of people trying to convince me he/she/it doesn't exist. I already went through years of baptist/episc/methodist schooling shoving shit down my throat. Most science is also theory at this point so don't condemn me if I question a random explosion in a non existant universe creating all of civilization. The Big Bang Theory makes Jesus look pretty tempting for the logical mind.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 12:08 pm 
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studying the bible as literature and history and moral lessons = good

studying the bible as pure fact = ridiculous

fitting religious text sudy into current curriculum = impossible, but certainly worth looking into

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genxgirl wrote:
studying the bible as literature and history and moral lessons = good

studying the bible as pure fact = ridiculous

fitting religious text sudy into current curriculum = impossible, but certainly worth looking into


I agree with all of that, but consdiering all the issues we are currently facing in this country/ society, why is it that so many feel the need to condemn Christianity? It is as if every dumb concept is related to Christian teachings.

The reason that homosexuality is an issue, has nothing to do with Christianity. At best there are two sentences in the Bible relating to the topic. The reason it is an issue, is because it is a bit freaky and disgusting to certain people. They may justify it through religion, but it comes from an innate or taught fear. Jesus did not say hate the homosexual, but a lot of us think penis and male ass is gross.. That is where it comes from. To the majority of the public, it is unnatural, and for those that cannot deal with it, they try to find some justification for that belief.

Now lets look at an issue like abortion. I'm not sure, but I don't think anything in the old/new talks about the issue. I am anti abortion despite what God may tell me is right or wrong. I just find it a bit fucked up. Yet it has become a Christian issue. As if the reason that someone like me finds 1 million abortions a year a bit dirty was because Jesus told me it was weird or wrong.

So yes, looking at the bible as pure fact is "ridiculous" actually it is straight up retarded. I had Mormons visit my apt, two weeks ago, and I have been reading their book since. They have showed up another 3 times, I have invited them in, and we debated religion the whole time. And as much as I think their religion is based on science fiction, the idea of virtue and right and wrong still has some merit. And i like the idea of religion, even taught in schools, because it gives some sort of consequence for being a fucking fool.

The worst people in this world are those without faith. And I don't mean religious faith, but those that believe in nothing. Htiler, Stalin, and Mao were not going on Christian beliefs. Those that believe themselves to be Gods are much worse then those that believe in other Gods.


Last edited by C4Lukin on Wed Aug 03, 2005 12:34 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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LittleWing wrote:
I'm not upset that this class is offered. It is an elective after all. I am upset by some of the things found in the book, but apparently it's a big book, and must largely be pretty good if that's all the study could find wrong with it. I'd like to have this book. I think it'd be an interesting read myself.

What exactly is a religious fundamentalist? What is an extremist?


A fundamentalist believes that only thier own beliefs are valid and viable and every one in the world should believe as they do any one who holds a different belief is mislead and should be made to conform.

Extremists are people that take fundmentalism to the extreme. For instance blowing themselves up in a crowd of people to "kill infidels"
or say blowing up abortion clinics, and then there are the God Hates Fags people. I'd classify them as extremists even though they are non violent and really only exist to sue people.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 12:54 pm 
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C4Lukin wrote:
I must have missed this during my public school years in Texas.


Well, their materials do only date back to 2003.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 1:03 pm 
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B wrote:
C4Lukin wrote:
I must have missed this during my public school years in Texas.


Well, their materials do only date back to 2003.


Then I'm to old. But back in the day, there was no Jesus in Texas, and we walked 3000 miles through the dirt and sun and we liked it.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 1:27 pm 
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C4Lukin wrote:
B wrote:
C4Lukin wrote:
I must have missed this during my public school years in Texas.


Well, their materials do only date back to 2003.


Then I'm to old. But back in the day, there was no Jesus in Texas, and we walked 3000 miles through the dirt and sun and we liked it.


I remember a chapter in social studies about Western religions. We grazed over the basis for Christianity, Islam, and Judiasm. I don't remember anything so sufficient as to keep from from thinking, "Those other religions are crap! I love Jesus." Maybe there was a pro-Christianity slant that I wasn't sensitive to at the time.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 1:38 pm 
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I would be really interested in taking a course that examined the Bible and other religious texts as a historical and sociological record without the religious connotations that accompany it. Sadly i think the only places around here that offer any kind of religious study are religious schools and the churches themselves.

The university here is too busy churning out Arts and Business students to care about any other types of study.


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