Post subject: Question for conservatives on this forum
Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 7:47 pm
Former PJ Drummer
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 4:01 am Posts: 19477 Location: Brooklyn NY
I was wondering, and I mean NOT to offend anybody since its been a very long year, but, are you liberal on ANY social issues? Just a question. How would conservatives feel if Bush appointed justices who would overturn abortion? Stop teaching the theory of evolution? Increased funding for abstinence-only programs? Roll back long standing environmental standards? Deny gay couples equal benefits as straight couples? Will some of the more liberal, moderate leaning Republicans let Bush do this?
Because if 4 million more people (according to the popular vote) believe the President can or should do these things, America may not be a nice place for people like me to live anymore. I think I have the right to be somewhat concerned
_________________
LittleWing sometime in July 2007 wrote:
Unfortunately, it's so elementary, and the big time investors behind the drive in the stock market aren't so stupid. This isn't the false economy of 2000.
Post subject: Re: Question for conservatives on this forum
Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 8:01 pm
Got Some
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 3:58 am Posts: 2105 Location: Austin
glorified_version wrote:
I was wondering, and I mean NOT to offend anybody since its been a very long year, but, are you liberal on ANY social issues? Just a question. How would conservatives feel if Bush appointed justices who would overturn abortion? Stop teaching the theory of evolution? Increased funding for abstinence-only programs? Roll back long standing environmental standards? Deny gay couples equal benefits as straight couples? Will some of the more liberal, moderate leaning Republicans let Bush do this?
Because if 4 million more people (according to the popular vote) believe the President can or should do these things, America may not be a nice place for people like me to live anymore. I think I have the right to be somewhat concerned
I'm a conservative and very liberal on most social issues. I don't think that under Bush abortion will be overturned, and that we will stop teaching the theory of evolution (though I could careless whether or not schoolchildren know that they are distant relatives of koko the monkey). I don't like abstinance only programs, but really it is shitty parenting that has our 4 year old girls and boys 69ing each other, and no schooling is going to help with that. As for the gay thing, America doesn't seem quite ready for it yet. We are getting closer I think, and it is sad that so many people are ignorant on the topic, but it will happen eventually, but Bush isn't exactly denying gays rights, he just isn't giving them new rights.
Post subject: Re: Question for conservatives on this forum
Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 8:02 pm
Yeah Yeah Yeah
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 2:32 pm Posts: 4054
glorified_version wrote:
Increased funding for abstinence-only programs?
Oooh oooh perfect solution- give high school kids rifles and tell them when they have the urge to have sex not for the purposes of procreation, to go shoot a death row inmate instead. It's a "tension" reliever and a perfect solution to two problems!
Post subject: Re: Question for conservatives on this forum
Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 8:05 pm
Unthought Known
Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2004 12:47 pm Posts: 9282 Location: Atlanta Gender: Male
glorified_version wrote:
I was wondering, and I mean NOT to offend anybody since its been a very long year, but, are you liberal on ANY social issues? Just a question. How would conservatives feel if Bush appointed justices who would overturn abortion? Stop teaching the theory of evolution? Increased funding for abstinence-only programs? Roll back long standing environmental standards? Deny gay couples equal benefits as straight couples? Will some of the more liberal, moderate leaning Republicans let Bush do this?
Because if 4 million more people (according to the popular vote) believe the President can or should do these things, America may not be a nice place for people like me to live anymore. I think I have the right to be somewhat concerned
Personally I'd like the government to stay out of damn near ALL social issues.
In other words "Do what thou will should be the whole of the laws until you endanger or inhibit the rights of others."
I'm mainly conservative economically.
More of the moderate conservatives probably still voted for Bush because they didn't like Kerry's plans. I didn't but I would never vote for Kerry either.
I hope the laughable, garbage theory of Creationism is never taught as fact in schools but there's no need to explain human evolution either, let the kids put 2 and 2 toegther. Explain how everything else evolves and then they can wait for Anthropology in college.
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 3:52 pm Posts: 215 Location: philadelphia
Quote:
I was wondering, and I mean NOT to offend anybody since its been a very long year, but, are you liberal on ANY social issues? Just a question. How would conservatives feel if Bush appointed justices who would overturn abortion? Stop teaching the theory of evolution? Increased funding for abstinence-only programs? Roll back long standing environmental standards? Deny gay couples equal benefits as straight couples? Will some of the more liberal, moderate leaning Republicans let Bush do this?
i'm fiscally conservative, and a bit more liberal socially.
abortion-not a government issue. it's an individual issue. i agree with banning partial birth abortion, but not outlawing all abortions outright.
evolution-i'm not sold on evolution. i'm even more dubious about creationism. i think intelligent design makes a bit more sense, though i'm not sold on it either. i'm pretty comfortable saying that i don't think an adequate enough theory has been posited as to the beginnings of existence, and i probably won't see one in my lifetime. the scientific method is a glacial process. i think you teach all 3. present, in regards to evolution, creationism, ID and the conflict between the three, the arguements for and against each, as well as the conflict.
funding abstinence programs-not the gov'ts job to teach the birds and bees, and certainly not the gov'ts place to be in the "morality business." the funding has to come from someone's pockets, and take away from those people something they perhaps valued more.
environmental standards-wouldn't be necessary in the first place if property rights were established, respected, and enforced.
gay rights-i fail to see how anyone's rights are violated when it comes to the gay marriage issue. regardless of my opinion on the morality of homosexuality, i would tolerate gay marriages and civil unions. tolerance requires only non-intervention, not tacit approval. this is a distinction that i think many conservatives fail to recognize.
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 4:01 am Posts: 19477 Location: Brooklyn NY
The question is, what will the President's stance be on social issues in the next 4 years? Will they be as bad as I predict?
The global thing, fine, whatever. Under Kerry there would be no change, America would still get attacked and be percieved as imperialistic. Economic issues, fine, no health care, more tax cuts, I'll deal.
I just don't want Bush to continue to create this atmoshpere in the country where the Bible is the word of law.
_________________
LittleWing sometime in July 2007 wrote:
Unfortunately, it's so elementary, and the big time investors behind the drive in the stock market aren't so stupid. This isn't the false economy of 2000.
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 12:14 am Posts: 8662 Location: IL
kthodos wrote:
Quote:
I was wondering, and I mean NOT to offend anybody since its been a very long year, but, are you liberal on ANY social issues? Just a question. How would conservatives feel if Bush appointed justices who would overturn abortion? Stop teaching the theory of evolution? Increased funding for abstinence-only programs? Roll back long standing environmental standards? Deny gay couples equal benefits as straight couples? Will some of the more liberal, moderate leaning Republicans let Bush do this?
i'm fiscally conservative, and a bit more liberal socially.
abortion-not a government issue. it's an individual issue. i agree with banning partial birth abortion, but not outlawing all abortions outright.
evolution-i'm not sold on evolution. i'm even more dubious about creationism. i think intelligent design makes a bit more sense, though i'm not sold on it either. i'm pretty comfortable saying that i don't think an adequate enough theory has been posited as to the beginnings of existence, and i probably won't see one in my lifetime. the scientific method is a glacial process. i think you teach all 3. present, in regards to evolution, creationism, ID and the conflict between the three, the arguements for and against each, as well as the conflict.
funding abstinence programs-not the gov'ts job to teach the birds and bees, and certainly not the gov'ts place to be in the "morality business." the funding has to come from someone's pockets, and take away from those people something they perhaps valued more.
environmental standards-wouldn't be necessary in the first place if property rights were established, respected, and enforced.
gay rights-i fail to see how anyone's rights are violated when it comes to the gay marriage issue. regardless of my opinion on the morality of homosexuality, i would tolerate gay marriages and civil unions. tolerance requires only non-intervention, not tacit approval. this is a distinction that i think many conservatives fail to recognize.
i dont know why... but this stuck out... the problem here is that there are really no facts to support creationism, just beliefs... and beliefs dont hold much substance in science
I don't see the abortion laws being overturned. I don't have any real stance on the Theory of Evolution issue. I agree that people aren't necessarily ready to accept homosexuality. I think abstinence only programs are a bit short-sighted but do you honestly think that 16 year olds don't know about how babies are born or about STD's. Maybe the parents should be teaching them about birth control and STD'S.
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 12:40 am Posts: 25451 Location: 111 Archer Ave.
matt, this is where you and i disagree.
i, like you, voted for kerry...but what bush will possibly do with a mandate and four more years in terms of social issues like abortion or sex education is the only thing i am happy about. minus the evolution thing, of course. the thought of not teaching evolution is intellectually sickening, but i think the chances of that happening are slim.
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 4:52 pm Posts: 10620 Location: Chicago, IL Gender: Male
glorified_version wrote:
The question is, what will the President's stance be on social issues in the next 4 years? Will they be as bad as I predict?
The global thing, fine, whatever. Under Kerry there would be no change, America would still get attacked and be percieved as imperialistic. Economic issues, fine, no health care, more tax cuts, I'll deal.
I just don't want Bush to continue to create this atmoshpere in the country where the Bible is the word of law.
I think what you see is what you get. He's not going to reverse course on any social issues, particularly where he sees he has a mandate from most social conservatives.
He will not change his mind on stem cell research, gay marriage, abortion, immigration, work visas for illegals and gun control. I think we all know where he stands on those issues.
The people that voted for him place a premium on issues of morality. Knowing that he's got a mandate, you will see his values reflected in his nominees for judges. Does that mean the Supreme Court will overturn Roe v. Wade? Probably not. But that does mean that the nominees will be strict constructionists and will not create artificial rights where none should exist.
Personally, I'm a very social liberal. At the same time, I respect the fact that people disagree with me on those issues and that my viewpoint will not carry the day in the end.
What I will resent is attempts to filibuster any judicial nominees that do not meet the litmus tests on social issues of most Democrats. If the Democrats wonder why the country is as polarized as it is and why, once again, they came out on the short end of this election (particularly when they ran against as weak of an incumbent as the President), they need look no further than their efforts to block judicial nominees based on social ideologies that, according to the polls, remain out of touch with the electorate.
Post subject: Re: Question for conservatives on this forum
Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 8:34 pm
Banned from the Pit
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 6:48 pm Posts: 61
glorified_version wrote:
I was wondering, and I mean NOT to offend anybody since its been a very long year, but, are you liberal on ANY social issues? Just a question. How would conservatives feel if Bush appointed justices who would overturn abortion? Stop teaching the theory of evolution? Increased funding for abstinence-only programs? Roll back long standing environmental standards? Deny gay couples equal benefits as straight couples? Will some of the more liberal, moderate leaning Republicans let Bush do this?
Because if 4 million more people (according to the popular vote) believe the President can or should do these things, America may not be a nice place for people like me to live anymore. I think I have the right to be somewhat concerned
hmm..good question. gay rights I'm all for. I agree with Kerry and Bush about civil unions. The transfer of property issue for example. As far as abortion, I don't know how I feel about overturning it. I'm against abortion but from a legal standpoint Roe v Wade exists so that's a tough one. Partial birth abortion should be outlawed. Period. Evolution I think should be taught b/c well I believe in it and I'm a Christian. (Explanation is another topic). The environment is where I am pretty "liberal" minded I guess. But at the same time, this Bush/environment thing is overstated. I'm close to someone that works for a company (large) that in in the mid 90s was doing things like dumping waste etc etc. When the EPA came around, they just paid off the EPA. Bush gets in office, people are going to jail. Just one example I know, but it's a rather large company and interesting how much changed in this instance. Anyway, back to topic, I'm pretty moderate I think.
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 12:51 am Posts: 15460 Location: Long Island, New York
ElPhantasmo wrote:
The day they start teaching kids creationism in schools, the revolution will begin. I guarantee it.
Creationism IS taught, atleast at my school it was. But it's taught alongside the evolution theory. Private schools may be a different matter all together.
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lutor3f wrote:
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Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 10:46 pm Posts: 9617 Location: Medford, Oregon Gender: Male
bullet proof wrote:
ElPhantasmo wrote:
The day they start teaching kids creationism in schools, the revolution will begin. I guarantee it.
Creationism IS taught, atleast at my school it was. But it's taught alongside the evolution theory. Private schools may be a different matter all together.
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 3:58 am Posts: 2105 Location: Austin
ElPhantasmo wrote:
The day they start teaching kids creationism in schools, the revolution will begin. I guarantee it.
Why? We spend about 5 minutes on evolutionary theory in our schools as it is. If those 5 minutes were spent on creationism, is it really going to destroy this country? Is evolutionary theory really all that important to the average student? People get hung up on some of the most insignifigant things. People offended my ceramic nativity scenes and stone tablets need to be beaten for over sensitivity.
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 7:23 am Posts: 1041 Location: Anchorage, Alaska Gender: Male
bullet proof wrote:
ElPhantasmo wrote:
The day they start teaching kids creationism in schools, the revolution will begin. I guarantee it.
Creationism IS taught, atleast at my school it was. But it's taught alongside the evolution theory. Private schools may be a different matter all together.
Unreal. If my teacher would have started teaching creationism to me I would have laughed him out of the room. What a freaking joke.
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 12:51 am Posts: 15460 Location: Long Island, New York
ElPhantasmo wrote:
bullet proof wrote:
ElPhantasmo wrote:
The day they start teaching kids creationism in schools, the revolution will begin. I guarantee it.
Creationism IS taught, atleast at my school it was. But it's taught alongside the evolution theory. Private schools may be a different matter all together.
Pathetic.
Let me clarify that. Evolution theory is the one that's presented to us as the accepted scientific theory but, in a very politically correct manner, we're told that some people also believe in creationism.
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lutor3f wrote:
Love is the delightful interval between meeting a beautiful girl and discovering that she looks like a haddock
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 12:51 am Posts: 15460 Location: Long Island, New York
C4Lukin wrote:
ElPhantasmo wrote:
The day they start teaching kids creationism in schools, the revolution will begin. I guarantee it.
Why? We spend about 5 minutes on evolutionary theory in our schools as it is. If those 5 minutes were spent on creationism, is it really going to destroy this country? Is evolutionary theory really all that important to the average student? People get hung up on some of the most insignifigant things. People offended my ceramic nativity scenes and stone tablets need to be beaten for over sensitivity.
Because if that's the theory that's taught solely, then they are supressing scientific findings because they contradict religion. Galileo, anyone?
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lutor3f wrote:
Love is the delightful interval between meeting a beautiful girl and discovering that she looks like a haddock
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 10:46 pm Posts: 9617 Location: Medford, Oregon Gender: Male
C4Lukin wrote:
ElPhantasmo wrote:
The day they start teaching kids creationism in schools, the revolution will begin. I guarantee it.
Why? We spend about 5 minutes on evolutionary theory in our schools as it is. If those 5 minutes were spent on creationism, is it really going to destroy this country? Is evolutionary theory really all that important to the average student? People get hung up on some of the most insignifigant things. People offended my ceramic nativity scenes and stone tablets need to be beaten for over sensitivity.
You put whatever you want in your front yard. Keep religion out of schools. Period. If they wanna teach creationism at storytime, that's fine, but to try and pass off a silly myth as fact is ridiculous.
_________________ Deep below the dunes I roved Past the rows, past the rows Beside the acacias freshly in bloom I sent men to their doom
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 4:01 am Posts: 19477 Location: Brooklyn NY
Thanks for the reassurance guys
I can live with Bush's policies on the world. Kerry would not have done much difference to prevent more American imperialism sadly, I've stated this before the election. I just think Bush's idea of what makes this country great in certain ways are very different than mine.
_________________
LittleWing sometime in July 2007 wrote:
Unfortunately, it's so elementary, and the big time investors behind the drive in the stock market aren't so stupid. This isn't the false economy of 2000.
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