http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051104/ap_ ... stmas_wars

Tension Over Christmas Observance Begins

By RICHARD N. OSTLING, AP Religion Writer Fri Nov 4, 6:23 PM ET

It's weeks before Thanksgiving but already interest groups are preparing for an intense year of conflict over Christmas observances by cities and public schools, with one conservative group lining up hundreds of attorneys to work on the issue.

Communities and courts have long fielded protests against municipal creche displays and school Nativity pageants, based on strict views of church-state separation and sensitivity toward religious minorities.

In recent years, however, local disputes have extended — to carol singing, wordless instrumental music, Christmas trees and decorations, classroom visits by Santa Claus, distribution of Christmas-themed cards and gifts, "Merry Christmas!" greetings and designation of Christmas on official calendars.

This week, the Alliance Defense Fund, a Christian legal group based in Scottsdale, Ariz., announced that its 800 cooperating attorneys have volunteered to handle without fee complaints about "improper attempts to censor the celebration of Christmas in schools and on public property."

In 2004, the second year of its "Christmas Project," affiliated attorneys sent a detailed memo on ADF's view of Christmas and constitutional law to 7,000 school districts. The 2005 effort, already under way, adds city officials.

A similar information campaign is being waged by Liberty Counsel, another Christian legal group based in Orlando, Fla., and the Christian Educators Association International, representing 8,000 public school teachers.

The topic also is the subject of a polemic by the Fox News Channel's John Gibson that is selling briskly: "The War on Christmas: How the Liberal Plot to Ban the Sacred Christian Holiday Is Worse Than You Thought."

Gibson, who calls himself a "non-practicing Christian," notes that his Jewish son researched the book. He says agitation against Christmas observance comes primarily from "secularists, so-called humanists, trial lawyers, cultural relativists and liberal, guilt-wracked Christians."

The
American Civil Liberties Union is targeted in another new book, "The ACLU vs. America: Exposing the Agenda to Redefine Moral Values" by ADF's Alan Sears and Craig Osten. The ACLU doesn't initiate all the complaints and lawsuits, the authors say, but it created the environment for widespread anti-Christmas efforts.

Even as Christmas is suppressed, these writers complain, schools sometimes encourage Ramadan, Hanukkah and Kwanzaa observances.

ACLU religion director Jeremy Gunn was in meetings and unavailable, a spokeswoman said. But an official ACLU bulletin says the Constitution forbids school observances "that promote or emphasize the religious significance" of Christmas, but not aspects "that have become part of our country's secular culture." The ACLU has repeatedly fought displays with religious themes on public property.

Under Freedom Forum First Amendment Center sponsorship, the ACLU has come to agreement with evangelical and other religious groups on minimal rules about school religious issues. On holidays, the accord says schools may celebrate secular aspects and "objectively teach about their religious aspects" but not observe them as religious events.

Americans United for Separation of Church and State also endorsed the accord.

Spokesman Rob Boston said "about 95 percent of the whining from the far right" over Christmas is for fundraising purposes. "They're trying to get people worked up so they will think Christmas is being removed from public life," Boston said. "There isn't any evidence that's happening."

Americans United believes "public schools aren't the appropriate place to celebrate Christmas as a religious holiday. That's a job for the home and the church," he said. The Supreme Court's rule that towns' Nativity displays must add secular symbols proves that if people "want a truly religious experience, city hall is not the place," Boston added.

Michael Johnson of Shreveport, La., an ADF staff lawyer, says his group merely wants to "defend the rights of the 96 percent of Americans who celebrate Christmas" and is not trying to evangelize. He thinks ACLU's goal is "ultimately to silence people of faith, and in many cases people of the Christian faith."

The Rev. Charles Nestor, an Assemblies of God minister in Lakeland, Fla., supports the legal fight. But his Web site also promotes "Operation Nativity", urging Christians to "flood the country" with Nativity displays at their homes, churches and businesses.

Why in God's name do cities and the like have to observe Christmas? They give all their workers the day off, who the fuck cares if there is a wreath up?

Go decorate your own house. Even if no one is offended by the religious decorations, or the fact that you spent public money on them, they're still going to be offended by a city-employee's idea of style in decorations.

Spare us all and keep holiday decorations out of buisiness space, public and private. We've got fucking work to do.

What I meant to post right after this was that this is always one of the most entertaining facets of the season, watching all the duking out over this issue. Thought I might as well warm it up on RM.

Could you imagine if schools put up Ramadan decorations too?

Watch the Christian right freak!

They do in France. Appears to have worked quite well.

the b that stole xmas?

That is why it is best for all religious decorations to not be in schools. Religion is just a too hot button of a topic.

There goes like half the years activities for Kindergarteners =( They'd have to spend hours coming up with new curriculum!!!!

I think holidays can be included in the curriculum if they're secular. Otherwise, celebrate the fucking seasons.

I think its silly to pretend religion doesn't exist. Why not use the holidays as a way to teach kids about diversity?

The B that moved Christmas over a little bit.

Since when the hell is Christmas a religious holiday? Christmas has and always will be about presents and trampling old ladies while fighting for a $30 dvd player. BUY BUY BUY!!!

and to avoid eye contact w/ the bell ringers.

Since they named it after Jesus Christ.

I think christmas has transcended simply being a religious holiday, to a holiday that is celebrated by religious and non-religious alike. Oddly, most of the people I know who celebrate christmas are not religious whatsoever. Christmas, much like other holidays has become an economical driving force, and had little to do with religion anymore. Elves, Santa, Frosty the snow man, xmas trees, presents, etc, really has nothing to do with the religious aspect of christmas at all.
Christmas certainly has religious origins, but I no longer see it as much of a religious holiday. At this point I'd say it's about 30% religious and 70% day off work, and every year the religious percentage drops.

Oh yeah, and the actual day of christmas isnt even the correct day for what they are supposed to be celebrating. More of an observance I guess. Might as well make it on superbowl sunday to consolidate.

This is another one of those things I find hard to believe captures the nation's political imagination.

I'm not even slightly religious, but I have no problem participating in it's celebration as long as no one is trying to convert me or make me feel guilty for not being a Christian. I don't see why Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, Jews, agnostics, or atheists should have any problem with some harmless Christmas celebration in a country which is predominantly Christian.

You don't see Diwali or Ramadan put on hold in India and Pakistan because there's a Christian population there. (Well, more in India than Pakistan, which barely has anything other than Islam anyway).

Separation of Church and State is an excellent bedrock doctrine for the political and legal system. But I can't see how Christmas decoration in the streets and kids sing Silent Night in schools subverts that principle in any way.

Let's take religion out of it for a minute. Why should Chapel Hill spend money on materials and labor to decorate Town Hall? That money, as little as it may be, could be used for sidewalks, pothole repair, park improvement, infrastructure repair, library books, public art, fire and rescue supplies, bus repairs, replacing city vehicles, school computers, or any of thousands of other projects. Hell, if you don't have a need in ANY of those areas, use the money to buy holiday meals for poor people.

When you're spending money on decorating, you're prioritizing Christmas over all those other needs.

just let everyone put their little display up and everyone can be represented. Think about it it could be fun, Muslims, Buddhists, Christians, Jews, Wickens, Scientologists. God Bless Us Everyone!

What are Christmas decorations but temporary public art. So town spirit and community events should not be part of town hall's agenda.
Me thinks your heart is about 4 sizes too small.