U.S. forces in Iraq have used incendiary white phosphorus against civilians and a firebomb similar to napalm against military targets, Italian state-run broadcaster RAI reported on Tuesday.
A RAI documentary showed images of bodies recovered after a November 2004 offensive by U.S. troops on the town of Falluja, which it said proved the use of white phosphorus against men, women and children who were burned to the bone.
"I do know that white phosphorus was used," said Jeff Englehart in the RAI documentary, which identified him as a former soldier in the U.S. 1st Infantry Division in Iraq.
The U.S. military says white phosphorus is a conventional weapon and says it does not use any chemical arms.
"Burned bodies. Burned children and burned women," said Englehart, who RAI said had taken part in the Falluja offensive. "White phosphorus kills indiscriminately."
A U.S. military spokesman in Baghdad said he did not recall white phosphorus being used in Falluja. "I do not recall the use of white phosphorus during the offensive operations in Falluja in the fall of 2004," Lieutenant Colonel Steven Boylan said.
An incendiary device, white phosphorus is used by the military to conceal troop movements with smoke, mark targets or light up combat areas. The use of incendiary weapons against civilians has been banned by the Geneva Convention since 1980.
The United States did not sign the relevant protocol to the convention, a U.N. official in New York said.
The Falluja offensive aimed to crush followers of al Qaeda's Iraq leader, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, said to have linked up with local insurgents in the Sunni Arab city west of Baghdad.
Some Western newspapers reported at the time that white phosporus had been used during the offensive.
In the documentary called "Falluja: The Hidden Massacre," RAI also said U.S. forces used the Mark 77 firebomb, a weapon similar to napalm, on military targets in Iraq in 2003.
It cited a letter it said came from British Armed Forces Minister Adam Ingram, claiming 30 MK 77 weapons were used on military targets in Iraq between March 31 and April 2, 2003.
Italy has nearly 3,000 troops in Iraq despite strong opposition to their presence there.
Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi is trailing in opinion polls ahead of April elections, and his center-left rivals have vowed to eventually pull troops out of Iraq.
(Additional reporting by Alistair Lyon in London and Claudia Parsons in Baghdad)
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Fucking sickening.
_________________ Deep below the dunes I roved Past the rows, past the rows Beside the acacias freshly in bloom I sent men to their doom
Last edited by meatwad on Tue Nov 08, 2005 9:02 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 7:19 pm Posts: 39068 Location: Chapel Hill, NC, USA Gender: Male
simple schoolboy wrote:
How many civilians were still in Fallujah at the time? I thought that almost all of them had left.
"proved the use of white phosphorus against men, women and children who were burned to the bone"
_________________ "Though some may think there should be a separation between art/music and politics, it should be reinforced that art can be a form of nonviolent protest." - e.v.
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 10:53 pm Posts: 20537 Location: The City Of Trees
War is hell.
This is going to open up a whole can of worms:
--Was there a deadline for civilians to evaucate Fallujah? Was it a reasonable one?
--How will the Pentagon react? --Confirm/deny/ingore, and to what degree?
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 12:59 am Posts: 18643 Location: Raleigh, NC Gender: Male
I don't think the military makes any guarantees that no civilians will be killed or injured in offensives. If there are civilians near military targets, TFB. The billions of dollars spent on military technologies in the last decades has been largely focused on accuracy and precision. If we wanted to just drop cheap, big bombs and just blow up everything in the area around a target, we could. Instead, I believe that every effort is taken to minimize collateral damage.
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2004 1:54 am Posts: 7189 Location: CA
B I caught that part of the article, I was just pondering why there were still in Fallujah is all. Phosphorus is usually dispersed via tank or artillery shell, so they might have just fired it at a house suspected of containing militants (as its a damn good way to clear out an area from what I hear) and hit the civilians instead. I really don't think anyone intentionally targeted civilians with this stuff...
edit: PS: I think its released as a particulate, so placing 'gassing' in the title is misleading.
Last edited by simple schoolboy on Tue Nov 08, 2005 7:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2004 1:54 am Posts: 7189 Location: CA
I used 'pondering' so as to not be accusatory. In addition, I don't think a hurricaine hands out leaflets a couple weeks in advance I was just watching some thing on the history channel and it made it appear as if the city was completely devoid of any civilian presence. I think the troops probably acted on the assumption that those who remained were the ones that wanted to fight.
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 12:59 am Posts: 18643 Location: Raleigh, NC Gender: Male
simple schoolboy wrote:
I used 'pondering' so as to not be accusatory. In addition, I don't think a hurricaine hands out leaflets a couple weeks in advance I was just watching some thing on the history channel and it made it appear as if the city was completely devoid of any civilian presence. I think the troops probably acted on the assumption that those who remained were the ones that wanted to fight.
I'm not sure what the geographical and transportational logistics were in Fallujah and won't pretend that I do. I don't think any of us should.
I have no doubt that there were some people there who simply couldn't leave, but your point about the military assuming those there intended to fight is an excellent one and also the correct assumption in a military offensive.
Old letter written by Hunter S. Thompson, I guess its still relevant.
Quote:
To the editor Aspen News and Times:
December 14 1969 Woody Creek, Colorado
Dear Editor,
My reason for writing this letter is unfortunate, but I can no longer live in Aspen without doing something about the absence of feeling about the war in Vietnam. I am not the only one who feels this way.
Accordingly, I want to explain our action before we do it, because I realize a lot of people won't understand. On Xmas eve we are going to burn a dog with napalm (or jellied gasoline made to the formula of napalm) on a street where many people will see it. If possible, we will burn several dogs, depending on how many we find on that day. We will burn these dogs wherever we can have the most public impact.
Anybody who hates the idea of burning dogs with napalm should remember that the American army is burning human beings with napalm every day in Vietnam. If you think it is wrong to burn a dog in Aspen, what do you think about burning people in Asia?
We think this will make the point, once people see what napalm does. It hurts humans much worse than it hurts dogs. And if anybody doubts this, they can volunteer to take the place of whatever dogs we have. Anybody who wants to try it should be standing in front of the Mountain Shop about four o'clock on Xmas eve, and he should be wearing a sign that says, 'Napalm Dog.' If this happens, we will put the jellied gasoline on the person, instead of the animal. Frankly, I'd rather burn a human war-monger than a dog, but I doubt if any of these will show up.
Sincerely, 'Adolph' (for obvious reasons I can't state my real name).
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 12:59 am Posts: 18643 Location: Raleigh, NC Gender: Male
jacktor wrote:
Old letter written by Hunter S. Thompson, I guess its still relevant.
Quote:
To the editor Aspen News and Times:
December 14 1969 Woody Creek, Colorado
Dear Editor,
My reason for writing this letter is unfortunate, but I can no longer live in Aspen without doing something about the absence of feeling about the war in Vietnam. I am not the only one who feels this way.
Accordingly, I want to explain our action before we do it, because I realize a lot of people won't understand. On Xmas eve we are going to burn a dog with napalm (or jellied gasoline made to the formula of napalm) on a street where many people will see it. If possible, we will burn several dogs, depending on how many we find on that day. We will burn these dogs wherever we can have the most public impact.
Anybody who hates the idea of burning dogs with napalm should remember that the American army is burning human beings with napalm every day in Vietnam. If you think it is wrong to burn a dog in Aspen, what do you think about burning people in Asia?
We think this will make the point, once people see what napalm does. It hurts humans much worse than it hurts dogs. And if anybody doubts this, they can volunteer to take the place of whatever dogs we have. Anybody who wants to try it should be standing in front of the Mountain Shop about four o'clock on Xmas eve, and he should be wearing a sign that says, 'Napalm Dog.' If this happens, we will put the jellied gasoline on the person, instead of the animal. Frankly, I'd rather burn a human war-monger than a dog, but I doubt if any of these will show up.
Sincerely, 'Adolph' (for obvious reasons I can't state my real name).
What if the dog wasn't in downtown picturesque Aspen and was instead sitting 100 feet from a house that contained military combatants? Because that's what really happened.
This is not the US napalming entire villages. You can't compare the 2.
Old letter written by Hunter S. Thompson, I guess its still relevant.
Quote:
To the editor Aspen News and Times:
December 14 1969 Woody Creek, Colorado
Dear Editor,
My reason for writing this letter is unfortunate, but I can no longer live in Aspen without doing something about the absence of feeling about the war in Vietnam. I am not the only one who feels this way.
Accordingly, I want to explain our action before we do it, because I realize a lot of people won't understand. On Xmas eve we are going to burn a dog with napalm (or jellied gasoline made to the formula of napalm) on a street where many people will see it. If possible, we will burn several dogs, depending on how many we find on that day. We will burn these dogs wherever we can have the most public impact.
Anybody who hates the idea of burning dogs with napalm should remember that the American army is burning human beings with napalm every day in Vietnam. If you think it is wrong to burn a dog in Aspen, what do you think about burning people in Asia?
We think this will make the point, once people see what napalm does. It hurts humans much worse than it hurts dogs. And if anybody doubts this, they can volunteer to take the place of whatever dogs we have. Anybody who wants to try it should be standing in front of the Mountain Shop about four o'clock on Xmas eve, and he should be wearing a sign that says, 'Napalm Dog.' If this happens, we will put the jellied gasoline on the person, instead of the animal. Frankly, I'd rather burn a human war-monger than a dog, but I doubt if any of these will show up.
Sincerely, 'Adolph' (for obvious reasons I can't state my real name).
What if the dog wasn't in downtown picturesque Aspen and was instead sitting 100 feet from a house that contained military combatants? Because that's what really happened. This is not the US napalming entire villages. You can't compare the 2.
Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2004 1:36 am Posts: 5458 Location: Left field
jacktor wrote:
Athletic Supporter wrote:
jacktor wrote:
Old letter written by Hunter S. Thompson, I guess its still relevant.
Quote:
To the editor Aspen News and Times:
December 14 1969 Woody Creek, Colorado
Dear Editor,
My reason for writing this letter is unfortunate, but I can no longer live in Aspen without doing something about the absence of feeling about the war in Vietnam. I am not the only one who feels this way.
Accordingly, I want to explain our action before we do it, because I realize a lot of people won't understand. On Xmas eve we are going to burn a dog with napalm (or jellied gasoline made to the formula of napalm) on a street where many people will see it. If possible, we will burn several dogs, depending on how many we find on that day. We will burn these dogs wherever we can have the most public impact.
Anybody who hates the idea of burning dogs with napalm should remember that the American army is burning human beings with napalm every day in Vietnam. If you think it is wrong to burn a dog in Aspen, what do you think about burning people in Asia?
We think this will make the point, once people see what napalm does. It hurts humans much worse than it hurts dogs. And if anybody doubts this, they can volunteer to take the place of whatever dogs we have. Anybody who wants to try it should be standing in front of the Mountain Shop about four o'clock on Xmas eve, and he should be wearing a sign that says, 'Napalm Dog.' If this happens, we will put the jellied gasoline on the person, instead of the animal. Frankly, I'd rather burn a human war-monger than a dog, but I doubt if any of these will show up.
Sincerely, 'Adolph' (for obvious reasons I can't state my real name).
What if the dog wasn't in downtown picturesque Aspen and was instead sitting 100 feet from a house that contained military combatants? Because that's what really happened. This is not the US napalming entire villages. You can't compare the 2.
mwa-mwa-mwa
I think it's a pretty fair comparison
_________________ seen it all, not at all can't defend fucked up man take me a for a ride before we leave...
Rise. Life is in motion...
don't it make you smile? don't it make you smile? when the sun don't shine? (shine at all) don't it make you smile?
Let's not forget, the terrorists often use human shields to drive up civilian deaths. These could ahve been forced to stay in the city. We don't knwo, which is why articles like this should not be judged unitl both sides have spoken their peice.
In Vietnam, they used to strap grenades to kids and send them running at US soliders to drive down moral.
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