source: Boston Sunday Globe, 11/20/2005--"Congress Reduces its Oversight Role"



Discuss.

Perhaps one of those involves direct orders from the preisdent and one is horrible mistakes made by military commanders fighting an unnecessary war in a very hostile country.

I don't see the connection.

perhaps one is a republican congress wasting tax payer money hunting down the democratic president for stupid shit and the other is the repulican congress letting the republican president allow atrocious acts to be performed without any accountability whatsoever.

ok so on to the Abu Ghraib, thing if this was a horrible mistake by military leaders why weren't/aren't those military leaders on trial?

Politics as usual?

Let me connect the dots for you.

Powell Aid: Torture guidance from VP

They are being investigated and prosecuted as the situation dictates. We are not privileged to all information about this, so we cannot make judgments until the cases are finished. Don’t you think if the evidence was incontrovertible there would be hearings?

http://www.islamonline.net/English/News/2004-04/30/article04.shtml



I still don't see the connection between investigating illegal fundraising activities and condoning abuse of prisoners. Nothing in that article says anything other than this one guy believes from second hand info that the VP and Rumsfeld were making military policy decisions outside of the normal process with regard to treatment of detainees. You may extrapolate that to include condoning torture, as Mr. Wilkerson does, but I don't think the evidence of that is present. In fact the article seems to present evidence to the contrary with statements by General Pace.




Congress wastes too much time on things that are none of it's business. I don't see the point in this comparison.

Um. Get with the times. That happened months ago. It went up to the Major General level, although it shouldn't even have gone that high. Just a note. Major General is really high.

i think so

It should not have gone up as high as it did....right

I think it goes higher then Major Generals. With Cheney lobbying Senators last week to vote not to ban torture. Isn't it kinda suspicious that such a tactic would be taken by the Vice President? Especially after this scandal damaged the U.S.'s credibility. Once again under his watch.

You also believe in UFOs and every single other conspiracy theory known to burn out losers on this planet. Do you beleive everything you hear on Coast To Coast AM? Are you the ghost of Jim Morrison? Get a clue. This was a handful of ill-prepared and poorly trained mouth breathers and not a government sponsored torture squad.

...do you believe everything Rush spouts out of his mouth, are you the ghost of Strom Thurmond, get a clue

After 2 posts on here your well versed in my posting habits huh. Your probably one of the many who have been on here before under a different name and were either banned or laughed outta this forum. Either way, I'll put you in the same boat as LW and just ignore all of your petty uneducated attempts at making a point.

I LOVE IT!!!!

Liberals personally attacking a conservative on this board all the while dodging real debate. What are you guys looking for? A world in which your views are never contradicted? A world in which everyone says, "Yeah, that conspiracy theory is right on the money...Bush really is Hitler reincarnated".

Keep up the personal insults and attacks! I love how you totally marginalize your movement by doing so. So much for OPEN-MINDED LIBERALS!

Why do we always have to rehash the same fucking debates over and over again.

If you guys would have taken the slightest interest in following the prosecution of the individuals involved in Abu Grahib, you wouldn't be saying things like, "it should have gone higher." The only reason it went to the Major General level was "burden of command" bullshit. If you would have followed the investigation, you would have found that the majority of blame was placed upon the captain, the company commander of Abu Grahib at the time. He recieved no orders, at all, from higher to do the things that transpired there. Not from the Executive Officer, not from his Commanding Officer, or the Colonel that was in Germany that lost his command, and has career ruined because of these actions.

The best part about you guys, is that any time anything bad comes out to tarnish Bush or the military, you're on it like a pack of dogs on a three legged cat. But anything that shows the system is WORKING, you make every attempt to ignore.

The way the entire Abu Grahib scandal panned out is proof positive that the system works, and doesn't need changing. Investigations occured, people were punished. But you guys still, for some unknown reason, want MORE paper work and legislation regarding the treatment of prisoners.

The reason Cheney has every right in the world to be against this waste of legislation is because RULES AGAINST TORTURE ALREADY EXIST!

ABSO-FUCKING-LUTLY correct. Bash away kids. Here is another conservative with real views, ideas, and answers. Don't let his rational thought push you around.

Report: Cheney advocated U.S. torture
UPI | November 21 2005

WASHINGTON, Nov. 21 (UPI) -- The U.S. practice of using torture on terror detainees was rooted in Vice President Dick Cheney's office, a former senior State Department official claims.

Retired U.S. Army Col. Larry Wilkerson, who served as former Secretary of State Colin Powell's chief of staff, made the allegation to CNN, and said it was possible the practice was still going on.

"There's no question in my mind where the philosophical guidance and the flexibility in order to do so originated -- in the vice president of the United States' office," he said. "His implementer in this case was (Defense Secretary) Donald Rumsfeld and the Defense Department."

Cheney is lobbying against a bill in Congress that would outlaw "cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment" of prisoners, and wants an exception for the CIA in cases that involve a detainee who may have knowledge of an imminent attack.

Earlier this month, President George Bush flatly denied there was a security policy of torture, saying: "We do not torture."

Same tired liberal media speculation about things that "may have", "might have", "possibly", "allegedly", and so on. Basically it is a news story as reputable as what comes out in The Onion. Nice try.