http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,178646,00.html

Iranian President Calls Holocaust a 'Myth'

Wednesday, December 14, 2005

TEHRAN, Iran — Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad escalated his anti-Israeli rhetoric Wednesday, calling the Holocaust a "myth" used by Europeans to create a Jewish state in the heart of the Islamic world.

"Today, they have created a myth in the name of Holocaust and consider it to be above God, religion and the prophets," Ahmadinejad told thousands of people in the southeastern city of Zahedan.

His remarks drew swift condemnation from Israel, Germany and the European Commission. Germany said the remarks would affect upcoming negotiations over Iran's nuclear program.

Ahmadinejad last week questioned whether the Nazi destruction of 6 million European Jews during World War II occurred and said Israel should be moved to Europe. He also provoked an international outcry in October when he called for Israel to be "wiped off the map."

But Wednesday was the first time he publicly denied the Holocaust. Touring southeast Iran, Ahmadinejad said that if Europeans insist the Holocaust happened, then they are responsible and should pay the price.

"If you committed this big crime, then why should the oppressed Palestinian nation pay the price?" Ahmadinejad asked rhetorically.

"This is our proposal: if you committed the crime, then give a part of your own land in Europe, the United States, Canada or Alaska to them so that the Jews can establish their country," he said, developing a theme he raised in Saudi Arabia last week.

German Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier called the remarks "shocking and unacceptable." He said the German government had summoned the Iranian charge d'affaires to make "unmistakably clear" its displeasure.

"I cannot hide the fact that this weighs on bilateral relations and on the chances for the negotiation process, the so-called nuclear dossier," Steinmeier said, referring to European talks with Iran on its nuclear program.

Israeli Foreign Ministry spokesman Mark Regev said: "The repeated outrageous remarks of the Iranian president show clearly the mind-set of the ruling clique in Tehran and indicate clearly the extremist policy goals of the regime.

"The combination of fanatical ideology, a warped sense of reality and nuclear weapons is a combination that no one in the international community can accept," Regev added, referring to allegations that Iran is developing nuclear bombs.

In Brussels, Belgium, European Commission spokeswoman Emma Udwin said the president's comments were "completely unacceptable."

"We feel very strongly that Iran is damaging its own interests with these kind of remarks," she said.

Ahmadinejad said the West had harmed Muslims, invaded their countries and plundered their wealth.

"If your civilization consists of aggression, making oppressed people homeless, suffocating the voices of justice and bringing poverty to a majority of the world's people, we say loudly that we hate your hollow civilization," he said.

Ahmadinejad has been unapologetic about taking Iran on a more openly defiant course, insisting on Iran's right to develop its nuclear program — which it insists is peaceful — and often using rhetoric reminiscent of the 1980s heyday of the Islamic Revolution.

The president's views sharply conflict with those of predecessor Mohammad Khatami, a moderate who used to call for dialogue among civilizations and promoted a low-key understanding with the United States that stopped short of diplomatic relations.

Inside Iran, Ahmadinejad's remarks have been criticized by some of his conservative allies, who fear he is hurting the country's image. Moderate Iranians have called on the ruling Islamic establishment to rein in the president.

But Supreme leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, who has the ultimate say, has backed Ahmadinejad's calls for Israel's elimination.

Ahmadinejad criticized the United States for refusing to sell Iran spare parts for its civilian planes as part of its long-standing embargo against the country.

Iran has suffered a series of plane accidents — most recently on Dec. 6, when an aging U.S.-made military transport plane crashed into a tall building in Tehran, killing 115 people. Iranian officials have blamed Washington for the crashes, saying they are partly caused by the difficulty in obtaining spare parts.

"No country is authorized to impose spare-part sanctions against another country. Nothing can justify this," Ahmadinejad said Wednesday.

Ahmadinejad said the denial of spare parts was a reason why Iran would not trust Western promises to give it nuclear fuel. The country is currently at loggerheads with the West over its insistence on enriching uranium to fuel its first nuclear reactor, which is due to start generating electricity next year.

The Europeans, with U.S. backing, do not trust Iran to have its own enrichment process since highly enriched uranium can be used for nuclear warheads. Europe has offered to sell enriched uranium for the reactor, but Iran has rejected this.

The United States is pushing to have Iran referred to the U.N. Security Council, where it could face sanctions for violating a nuclear arms control treaty.

Ahmadinejad said that if Iran gave in on the nuclear dispute, there was no guarantee the West might not refuse to sell nuclear fuel in the future.

"I assure you that we won't step back one inch from our nuclear rights," the president told the crowd, drawing chants of "Death to America!"

Iran is due to resume negotiations on the nuclear issue with envoys from Britain, France and Germany starting Dec. 21 in Vienna, Austria.

look this guy is just an idiot. nobody in the international community takes him seriously.

what's much more interesting is what's going on now in israel, with ariel sharon having left the likud to form his own centrist party along with former labour pm shimon peres. i'm hopeful these two old political rivals can create a viable centrist option which marginalizes israel's far-right politicians like netanyahu and speeds along the process of creating a palestinian state.

well the problem is that he's in charge of iran.

To an extent, anyway.

he's one of the stupidest human beings in the world.

While I don't think the Holocaust in any way is a myth, I have found evidence that does support the possibility of an exageration when it comes to the number 6 million. Which in no way detracts from the horrific attrocity that was the Holocaust. It was calculated cold blooded murder of millions. Be it 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 million, we will never know. But to call it a myth is downright ignorant, and does make him look looney.

But does anyone here think that an inflated number of deaths at concentration camps would in anyway help create the state of Israel?

Also, not that Israel would ever move, but does anyone think that Israel being in Europe would quell a lot of violence in the region?

This is an interesting point also "If you committed this big crime, then why should the oppressed Palestinian nation pay the price?" Ahmadinejad asked rhetorically.

Anyone agree?



I know why Europe would offer but why would Iran reject it?

be careful there buddy. the book of victims at the Holocoast Museum in Jeresulam has 3 and a half million verified victims in it alone.

3.5 million or 100, 000, I don't fuckin care, it was genocide, it was wrong and any attempt to lesson what was done is foolish and inhumane.

Almost as scary as this guy being Governer of California



http://www.devilducky.com/media/38195/

Is it really that shocking to people that a country that hates Jews would say that? alternatively this thread reminded me of that time Noam Chomsky defended that guy who said the Holocaust was made up.

not that i think you don't already know this, but i just wanna make sure people understand chomsky defended the guy's right to say it, not the statement itself.

chomsky's got a wee bit more street cred than ol' mahmoud

Yeah I knew dat.

But you made it sounded a lot like Chomsky himself believed it was made up. I had to look it up because I read it that way at least.

You knew what I ment.

It's not interesting at all. It's rewriting history. The Palestianian's were never repressed by the Jews. And if you want to call the Israeli settlements oppression, either way you slice it, their own people repressed them far more than the Jews ever did in almost every capacity imaginable. Exploited and subgjugated by their own "brothers."

o rly? Wanna share?



No. But I'm sure it makes some people feel better to think so.



No. It would make it worse. How would the movement of land from a nation to create a new one help anything? Perhaps the creation of Israel was a mistake. But it cannot be undone.

Perhaps somewhere less inhabited.... like Madagascar?



Because enriching uranium is how you make nuclear weapons.

I'd love to share:

The Most Debated Question of Our Time
WAS THERE REALLY A HOLOCAUST ?
By Dr. Edward.R. Fields

"Since the Second World War, Jews have been treated with silk gloves. Without Auschwitz, there would be no Israel."

- by Nathan Goldmann, the Founder of Israel as quoted from Paris Match, December 29, 1979

The "Holocaust" has given Israel a tremendous psychological advantage over the Gentile world, particularly America and Germany. By exploiting the guilt complex instilled in non-Jews, they have obtained:

Over $65 billion in aid from Germany.
Over $55 billion in aid from America. Israel, a prosperous country, receives $3.2 billion, (or $8 million a day) in foreign aid - more than any other country.
The 45,000 Jewish immigrants from Russia have the highest annual quota after Mexico. They enter as "refugees" without having to prove persecution! As "refugees" they are automatically entitled to full welfare benefits not subject to welfare reform cuts.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Official Holocaust Figures Reduced

Immediately after World War II, Allied authorities declared that "Jews had been gassed" in all German concentration camps. It later discovered that the many bodies photographed in the camps died during the waning days of the war - from typhus, cold and starvation. Simon Wiesenthal, of the "Holocaust Center" in Los Angeles, stated in Books and Bookmen, April 1975, page 5, "No gassing took place in any camp on German soil." The Jew L.P. Beria headed the Soviet NKVD secret police from 1938 to 1953. In 1945, he announced that they had discovered a "holocaust" of six million Jews. This conveniently occurred only in camps in Poland! Beria would not allow any outside investigators to examine these sites. The Jewish-owned New York Times reported in 1945 that Soviet Russia supplied the figure of four million Jews having been put to death, "in the gas chambers of Auschwitz." However, in July of 1990, the Polish government reduced this figure to 1.1 million and it was accepted by Jewish groups. Despite this evidence, the "official figure" of six million dead was not lowered to three million!

(It should also be noted that Elizabeth Dole, president of the American Red Cross, and wife of former Sen. Bob Dole, revealed that the official death records from Auschwitz had been uncovered in the Soviet Archives. It listed 70,000 deaths from all causes.)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

No Holocaust Order Ever Given

The Germans are noted for being meticulous record keepers. There was no attempt made to destroy wartime records, 1,100 tons of which were seized in the U.S. Zone of occupation alone. British Historian, Colin Cross, writes in his biography of Hitler, on page 313: "There does not exist then, anything like a written order signed by Hitler for the extermination of the Jews in Europe."

Madagascar is a vast island off the coast of Africa in the Indian Ocean, then owned by France. Thousands of pages of German documents have been located providing a thorough study of the feasibility of establishing a Jewish homeland on the island of Madagascar. Plans were made for the reimbursement of the 25,000 French citizens who lived there. Even the government of France studied the plan. Theodore Herzl, the founder of Zionism, considered Madagascar a possible site for a Jewish state. He also considered Kenya, Africa, the Sinai from the Suez Canal to the Gaza Strip, and a huge area in southern Poland, but they really wanted Palestine.

The German Foreign Ministry on January 25, 1939 issued a document on the solution to the Jewish problem which stated: "The end policy in regard to the Jews is the emigration of all Jews living in the territory of the Old Reich."

In Auschwitz Notebooks, we read that all of the top German leadership supported this plan. "On November 12, 1938, Goring had mentioned the question of Madagascar. Himmler himself had dreamed of that since 1934, a witness assures us. After the armistice of June 1940 (surrender of France), the idea was propounded by the Foreign Ministry and approved by Himmler as well as by Hitler himself."

For these reasons SS official Reinhard Heydrich organized the Central Office for Jewish Emigration on February 11, 1939. Once the war began, this was no longer possible. Thus Hitler ordered the internment of Jews as enemy aliens and deported them to the east. On January 27, 1942, Hitler said: "The Jews must leave Europe. The best thing is that they go to Russia."

Roosevelt did the same thing as Hitler by ordering 120,000 Americans of Japanese descent living on the West Coast interned in concentration camps. In March 1942 Roosevelt accused them of being "security risks." The Japanese men, women and children were imprisoned behind barbed wire fences and armed guard towers in the blazing hot desert.

The Nuremberg War Crimes Trial heard testimony from Hans Lammers as to what he considered the "Final Solution of The Jewish Problem." Lammers was Chief of the Reich Chancellery and personally close to Himmler and Hitler. Lammers said he asked Himmler what was the "final solution." Himmler replied: "The Jews must be evacuated from Germany!" He said that Hitler told him the same thing. In other words, "The Final Solution" was --emigration! When asked, "when did you first learn that five million Jews had been exterminated," Lammers replied that it was "here" at the Nuremberg trials! Herman Goring also told the court that the first time he had heard anything about a holocaust was, "right here at Nuremberg!"

Auschwitz was a massive military-industrial complex of 39 camps of which 19 mainly employed Jews. The factories at the "Monowitz No. 16 Camp" alone employed 126,000 workers. Holocaust expert, Leon Poliakov of Paris, in Breviary of Hate, page 134, in 1979 wrote that the Jewish Warsaw Ghetto was one of the Germans' "most important supply centers. The second in economic importance was the Lodz ghetto because it manufactured all kinds of goods, and, in particular, its textile industries constituted support of great value to the German economy."

Heinrich Himmler feared a typhus epidemic in the camps. Eastern European Jews were very unhygienic and were often blamed for the spread of typhus. On December 28, 1942, Himmler ordered that, "the death rate in the camps must be reduced at all costs." (Source, Reitlinger's book, The Final Solution.) On January 20, 1943, chief inspector of the camps, Richard Glucks, answered Himmler, "Every means will be used to lower the death rates." (Source, Nuremberg Trial Document No. 1523.) The death rate had indeed been reduced from 8.5% in July 1942 to 2.8% in June 1943.

On April 17, 1943, Hitler asked Admiral Horthy, regent of Hungary for, "100, 000 Jews to work on a new pursuit plane program." (Source, Reitlinger's book, Die Endlosung, 1956, page 478.) In May 1944 Hitler personally ordered that 200,000 more Jews be put to work in construction and "other important military works."

The Jews were vital to the German war industry. It would have been counter productive to exterminate them. In fact, the SS arrested Karl Koch, commandant of Buchenwald, for mistreating and unjustly executing some prisoners. After being found guilty by a military court, Koch was sentenced to death and shot. If there was actually a "holocaust" he would have been honored instead of executed.

Shindler's List features Commandant Amon Goeth, who in reality did abuse prisoners. However, the film fails to inform viewers that he had been arrested by the SS and was in prison awaiting trial at war's end. Most of the gruesome pictures of bodies we see in "made for TV" holocaust dramas are those who died of starvation and disease during the final chaotic months of the war. An example is Dachau. Some 54 died in January 1944 and 101 in February 1944. When food and medical supplies could not be delivered due to Allied bombings, 2,888 died in January and 3,977 in February 1945.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Impossibility of Mass Gassings

Auschwitz had no mass graves. The cremation of four million bodies would have left 15,000 tons of ash which was never found. Many tons of coal would have been necessary for such mass cremations. Initially, the Soviets told conflicting stories about how the six million perished in the camps under their control. At first they claimed that the inmates had been "steamed" to death. On December 5, 1945, a Communist judge issued the following "Accusation No. 6" against defendant Hans Frank at Nuremberg:

"A large boiler for the production of superheated steam was injected into the interior of the rooms. The doors are closed hermetically and the long asphyxiation of the victims by the steam begins. At the start, screams came from inside, they die down slowly; after 15 minutes, the executions are completed."

This story was not believable. It was then changed to allege that trucks were backed up to the "death chambers" and carbon monoxide gas was pumped into the rooms. This claim too was "forgotten" and the Soviets then charged that the Germans changed the "steam chambers" into "gas chambers."

The Soviets came up with a novel idea of how the Jews were exterminated at the Belzec camp. "The Jews were ordered to undress as though to take a bath. They were led in fact into a building that could hold hundreds of people. The water was filled up to their necks. Then a powerful electric current was sent into the metal flooring and within a few seconds all the Jews, thousands at a time, were dead."

Soviet prosecutor L.N. Smirnov actually read this accusation into the record at the December 19, 1945, session of the Nuremberg trial. This story finally evolved to execution by "Zyklon B" gas. This was a widely used pesticide to kill lice which was the biggest health threat in the camps. Had the Germans actually wanted to perform mass exterminations, they had products one-thousand times more deadly such as Sarin and Tabun nerve gas!

Austrian Engineer Walter Luftl issued a report in March 1992, in which he found that, "Zyklon B is utterly unsuited for the purposes of systematic mass murder."

Fred Leuchter, America's foremost expert on executions, took a team of investigators to Auschwitz in 1988 and reported: "I traveled to Poland to investigate the alleged execution gas chamber facilities at the three concentration camps of Auschwitz, Birkenau and Majdanek. My forensic analysis and subsequent report proves beyond any shadow of a doubt that there were no gas execution facilities operated by the Nazis at these sites."

Leuchter also examined the capacity of the so-called "gas chamber building" at Birkenau. The Nuremberg Tribunal's document No. L-022 stated: "1,765,000 Jews were gassed at Birkenau between April 1942 and April 1944." However, Leuchter found that even if used at full capacity "only 105,688" persons could have been "gassed." His team scraped forensic samples from brick, mortar and concrete to find traces of cyanide compounds which would be present for centuries. They were submitted to the Alpha Analytical Laboratories of Ashland, Massachusetts. In March 1988, the Alpha report found that no cyanide elements, consistent with what could be expected to be found in a gas chamber, were present.

A retired German judge, Dr. Wilhelm Staglich said: "The extermination thesis stands or falls with the allegation that Auschwitz was a 'death factory.'"

Fred Leuchter's finding: "We have provided the definitive proof that there were no execution gas chambers utilized for genocidal purposes by the Germans at these wartime camps. The simple fact is that the holocaust story is not true."


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

How Many Jews Actually Died?

The World Almanac for 1947, in quoting figures supplies by the American Jewish Committee states that the world Jewish population in 1939 was 15,688,259. The New York Times of February 22, 1948, stated that the world Jewish population ranged from 15,600,000 to 18,700,000, excluding some 600,000 to 700,000 living in Palestine. How could the Jewish population have increased so rapidly after losing six million during World War II? Walter Sanning, the author of Dissolution of European Jewry, says that no less than 2,200,000 Jews had emigrated out of Europe leaving 2,847,000 Jews residing there at the height of the German occupation in June 1941. After the war, 3,375,000 Jews, according to the Red Cross, applied for holocaust reparations. This figure included many of the emigrants. Thus, the actual number of those who died at the camps from all causes ranges between 150,000 and 300,000.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Holocaust" Silences Opposition

Hardly a week goes by without a new holocaust story in the media. Bernard Postal wrote in Jewish Week, July 14, 1979:

"Not until the Holocaust, did anti-Semitism become taboo. There was a time when anti-Semitic speeches were an open factor in national (political) campaigns. The Holocaust puts a taboo on overt anti-Semitism among upper-level statesmen and publicists."

Zionist spokesmen have often boasted that, "The shattering effect of the holocaust on the Christian conscience results in a feeling of collective indebtedness to the Jews."

The Red Cross issued a massive, three volume, 1,600 page report on the camps after the war, part of which reads: "In the final moths of the war, the camps received no food supplies at all and starvation claimed an increasing number of victims." ... Gen. Kaltenbrunner. . . Allowed the Red Cross to distribute relief packages and one (Red Cross) delegate was authorized to stay in each camp (as an observer). Does this sound like a holocaust?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What About Real Holocausts?

Why doesn't the film industry or news media produce documentaries about the numerous true holocausts of Gentiles during this century such as:

The Soviet Holocaust of Christian Russian Kulak farmers. (1924 - 1930) - 15 million exterminated!

The Holocaust of the Ukranian farmers, (1930- 1933) - 7 million starved to death.

The Holocaust of Russian political prisoners, (1919 - 1949) - 12 million perished.

The Pol Pot Communist Holocaust in Cambodia (1975) - 2.5 million slaughtered.

Armenian Holocaust by the Turks, (1915) - 1.5 million people killed.

All nice and neat and concise for you.





I understand that, so why would Iran reject it? Europe offers to help w/ Iran's nuclear ambitions and it says no? Why?

I cannot believe anyone on this board would cite an article by "Dr" Edward Fields as a legitimate source. The man has been acitve in white supremacist causes for years:
http://www.adl.org/learn/ext_us/Fields. ... tem=Fields

Even if you didn't know this, did you even read that article? Putting the word holocaust in quotation marks? It's disgusting.

I didn't know who he was but it's very typical. Always questioning the sources motives instead of disproving the claims that are stated. I had a documentary by a completely different guy stating many of the same things, since he isn't a white supremest would that make what he's saying more factual? Also are you saying chiropractics isn't worthy of the Dr. status?

I simply googled what I was looking for and not being able to find the documentary that I originaly viewed, I thought this was concise and neat enough to use in substitution. Now, please attack the argument and claims made, prove them wrong, then we will be debating.

Start here in debunking:

The World Almanac for 1947, in quoting figures supplies by the American Jewish Committee states that the world Jewish population in 1939 was 15,688,259. The New York Times of February 22, 1948, stated that the world Jewish population ranged from 15,600,000 to 18,700,000, excluding some 600,000 to 700,000 living in Palestine. How could the Jewish population have increased so rapidly after losing six million during World War II? Walter Sanning, the author of Dissolution of European Jewry, says that no less than 2,200,000 Jews had emigrated out of Europe leaving 2,847,000 Jews residing there at the height of the German occupation in June 1941. After the war, 3,375,000 Jews, according to the Red Cross, applied for holocaust reparations. This figure included many of the emigrants. Thus, the actual number of those who died at the camps from all causes ranges between 150,000 and 300,000.

Sure. Lets start with Fred Leuchter, the so-called "foremost expert of capital punishment." Here's a nifty little bit of info on him, and his "forensic analyisis" that led him to assist white supremacists (via Wikipedia, although it can be found elsewhere):


Reliable study, huh?

I'm just about to get off work, so I'll be back on in a bit to dismiss some other parts of the racist screed that you've posted.