I'm not old enough to remember him or Gossage in their primes, but just looking at the stats - it seems like if Sutter got in, Goose should have gotten in as well. Not that this means anything, but my father always says that the two most intimidating guys he ever saw pitch were Koufax and Goose. From what I've read, it seems like many hitters from that era feel the same way about Gossage.
For some reason, Andre Dawson and his lifetime .323 OBP nearly got in as well. And who the f--k voted for Greg Jeffries, Walt Weiss, and the rest of the guys at the bottom of the list?
_________________ “You’re good kids, stay together. Trust each other and be good teammates to one another. I believe there is a championship in this room.”
-Ernie Accorsi in his final address to the NY Giants locker room before retiring as GM in January of 2007
I'm not old enough to remember him or Gossage in their primes, but just looking at the stats - it seems like if Sutter got in, Goose should have gotten in as well. Not that this means anything, but my father always says that the two most intimidating guys he ever saw pitch were Koufax and Goose. From what I've read, it seems like many hitters from that era feel the same way about Gossage.
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 7:55 pm Posts: 1461 Location: PA
1) It's about time for Sutter.
2) Goose deserves to be in. No question in my mind. But with the crop of players comnig up next year (Ripken, McGwire, Gwynn) it's going to be tough for him, which is sad.
3) I sent an e-mail to some friends asking how guys like Greg Jeffries and Walt Weiss get votes. They should publicize the votes so we can lynch those ass-hats. what a wasted vote. Gary DiSarcina's gotta be pissed though...no local writer even voted for him!
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 6:44 am Posts: 14671 Location: Baton Rouge Gender: Male
MattA75 wrote:
Mitchell wrote:
Electromatic wrote:
Rice should be in.
i really don't think so
the dude dominated for a decade and his numbers are without the juice
if Tony Perez is in and it took him 22 years to get those numbers, then Rice should be in since it took him only 15 years and he hit 20 pts higher
wow, a red sox fan saying rice should be in
Harold Baines had a .289 average and 384 homers, plus a better OBP than Rice. He's not a Hall of Famer.
Frank Howard had exactly the same number of homers, and while he had a lower average, he had exactly the same OBP as Rice. And Howard played in a much less hitter-friendly environment. Howard isn't a HOFer.
Albert Belle had a .295 average and 381 homers. And Belle has a 23 point edge in EQA over Rice. If Rice is a HOFer, so is Albert Belle.
Norm Cash has 377 homers, and a 20+ point edge in OBP over Rice. Cash was a better player than Rice. If Rice is a HOFer, so is Cash.
Dwight Evans had more homers than Rice, a big edge in OBP, and was an elite defensive rightfielder, to boot. Yet Dwight Evans -- a legitimate HOFer -- gets no consideration.
Darrell Evans had more homers and a higher OBP than Rice. But he's not considered a HOFer.
In fact, Rice's impending election -- and it looks like he will be elected, even though he has no business in the Hall -- is probably great news for Juan Gonzalez, the Jim Rice of the 1990s.
Like Rice, Juan played in a great hitter's park. Like Rice, Juan was one of the most feared hitters in the game. Like Rice, Juan quit being an effective player in his early-30s.
Juan's .295 average and 434 homers compare favorably to Rice, and Juan has a higher career EQA than Rice. Juan also has two MVP awards, to just one for Rice.
Probably has to do more with his changing the way the SS position was played rather than raw numbers.
You mean doing summersaults while taking the field?
That's a pretty slippery slope if it's truly the case.
Sommersaults were actually the first thing I thought of when I thought OS, but no, he started/perfected this whole acrobatic SS thing that guys like Jose Vizcaino, Nomar, Jeter etc... are all disciples of, and they all give Ozzie a lot of the credit for it. I agree it's a little tenuous, but I understand why he's in.
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 7:55 pm Posts: 1461 Location: PA
parchy wrote:
Chris_H_2 wrote:
parchy wrote:
Chris_H_2 wrote:
Why is Ozzie Smith in but not Alan Trammell?
Probably has to do more with his changing the way the SS position was played rather than raw numbers.
You mean doing summersaults while taking the field?
That's a pretty slippery slope if it's truly the case.
Sommersaults were actually the first thing I thought of when I thought OS, but no, he started/perfected this whole acrobatic SS thing that guys like Jose Vizcaino, Nomar, Jeter etc... are all disciples of, and they all give Ozzie a lot of the credit for it. I agree it's a little tenuous, but I understand why he's in.
I agree with Ozzie being in, but I do not understand why Trammell is not. Compare his numbers to all other HoF shortstops, and he measures up with all of them.
Joined: Sat Nov 19, 2005 5:05 am Posts: 1003 Location: somebody else's sky
Stelly wrote:
parchy wrote:
Chris_H_2 wrote:
parchy wrote:
Chris_H_2 wrote:
Why is Ozzie Smith in but not Alan Trammell?
Probably has to do more with his changing the way the SS position was played rather than raw numbers.
You mean doing summersaults while taking the field?
That's a pretty slippery slope if it's truly the case.
Sommersaults were actually the first thing I thought of when I thought OS, but no, he started/perfected this whole acrobatic SS thing that guys like Jose Vizcaino, Nomar, Jeter etc... are all disciples of, and they all give Ozzie a lot of the credit for it. I agree it's a little tenuous, but I understand why he's in.
I agree with Ozzie being in, but I do not understand why Trammell is not. Compare his numbers to all other HoF shortstops, and he measures up with all of them.
The problem for Trammell is he didn't reach the magical 3,000 hits milestone, or even come close. Ozzie had a staggering defensive reputation that netted him 13 gold gloves. I don't think I've ever come across a single non-Cub fan that thnks anybody but Ozzie is the best defensive shortstop of all time, and some people think he's the best defensive player ever, period. So that gets Ozzie n without the 3,000 hits. Certainly, Trammelll was a better player than Rabbit Maranville, but what can you do? The Hall of Fame is pretty stupid
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 4:52 pm Posts: 10620 Location: Chicago, IL Gender: Male
Koufax wrote:
once again Gil Hodges gets screwed. where the hell is the VEt comittee when you need them????????
The Vet Committee vote is a joke. When players like Mike Schmidt admit that they find no reason to vote someone in if they didn't get the requisite number of votes from the selection committee, you know something's wrong. If that's truly the case, why even have a vet committee vote?
Or perhaps I'm just pissed that Ron Santo is still not in.
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