Board index » Word on the Street... » News & Debate




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 14 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: For Once, Blame the Student
PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 4:58 pm 
Offline
User avatar
Got Some
 Profile

Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 2:27 pm
Posts: 1965
Location: 55344
this should provide some good discussion

Quote:


By Patrick Welsh Wed Mar 8, 7:08 AM ET

Failure in the classroom is often tied to lack offunding, poor teachersor other ills. Here's athought: Maybe it's thefailed work ethic of todays kids. That's what I'm seeing in my school. Until reformers see thisreality, little will change.
ADVERTISEMENT

Last month, as I averaged the second-quarter grades for my senior English classes at T.C. Williams High School in Alexandria, Va., the same familiar pattern leapt out at me.

Kids who had emigrated from foreign countries - such as Shewit Giovanni from Ethiopia, Farah Ali from Guyana and Edgar Awumey from Ghana - often aced every test, while many of their U.S.-born classmates from upper-class homes with highly educated parents had a string of C's and D's.

As one would expect, the middle-class American kids usually had higher SAT verbal scores than did their immigrant classmates, many of whom had only been speaking English for a few years.

What many of the American kids I taught did not have was the motivation, self-discipline or work ethic of the foreign-born kids.

Politicians and education bureaucrats can talk all they want about reform, but until the work ethic of U.S. students changes, until they are willing to put in the time and effort to master their subjects, little will change.

A study released in December by University of Pennsylvania researchers Angela Duckworth and Martin Seligman suggests that the reason so many U.S. students are "falling short of their intellectual potential" is not "inadequate teachers, boring textbooks and large class sizes" and the rest of the usual litany cited by the so-called reformers - but "their failure to exercise self-discipline."

The sad fact is that in the USA, hard work on the part of students is no longer seen as a key factor in academic success. The groundbreaking work of Harold Stevenson and a multinational team at the University of Michigan comparing attitudes of Asian and American students sounded the alarm more than a decade ago.

Asian vs. U.S. students

When asked to identify the most important factors in their performance in math, the percentage of Japanese and Taiwanese students who answered "studying hard" was twice that of American students.

American students named native intelligence, and some said the home environment. But a clear majority of U.S. students put the responsibility on their teachers. A good teacher, they said, was the determining factor in how well they did in math.

"Kids have convinced parents that it is the teacher or the system that is the problem, not their own lack of effort," says Dave Roscher, a chemistry teacher at T.C. Williams in this Washington suburb. "In my day, parents didn't listen when kids complained about teachers. We are supposed to miraculously make kids learn even though they are not working."

As my colleague Ed Cannon puts it: "Today, the teacher is supposed to be responsible for motivating the kid. If they don't learn it is supposed to be our problem, not theirs."

And, of course, busy parents guilt-ridden over the little time they spend with their kids are big subscribers to this theory.

Maybe every generation of kids has wanted to take it easy, but until the past few decades students were not allowed to get away with it. "Nowadays, it's the kids who have the power. When they don't do the work and get lower grades, they scream and yell. Parents side with the kids who pressure teachers to lower standards," says Joel Kaplan, another chemistry teacher at T.C. Williams.

Every year, I have had parents come in to argue about the grades I have given in my AP English classes. To me, my grades are far too generous; to middle-class parents, they are often an affront to their sense of entitlement. If their kids do a modicum of work, many parents expect them to get at least a B. When I have given C's or D's to bright middle-class kids who have done poor or mediocre work, some parents have accused me of destroying their children's futures.

It is not only parents, however, who are siding with students in their attempts to get out of hard work.

Blame schools, too

"Schools play into it," says psychiatrist Lawrence Brain, who counsels affluent teenagers throughout the Washington metropolitan area. "I've been amazed to see how easy it is for kids in public schools to manipulate guidance counselors to get them out of classes they don't like. They have been sent a message that they don't have to struggle to achieve if things are not perfect."

Neither the high-stakes state exams, such as Virginia's Standards of Learning, nor the requirements of the No Child Left Behind Act have succeeded in changing that message; both have turned into minimum-competency requirements aimed at the lowest in our school.

Colleges keep complaining that students are coming to them unprepared. Instead of raising admissions standards, however, they keep accepting mediocre students lest cuts have to be made in faculty and administration.

As a teacher, I don't object to the heightened standards required of educators in the No Child Left Behind law. Who among us would say we couldn't do a little better? Nonetheless, teachers have no control over student motivation and ambition, which have to come from the home - and from within each student.

Perhaps the best lesson I can pass along to my upper- and middle-class students is to merely point them in the direction of their foreign-born classmates, who can remind us all that education in America is still more a privilege than a right.

Patrick Welsh is an English teacher at T.C. Williams High School in Alexandria, Va., and a member of USA TODAY's board of contributors.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/usatoday/200603 ... NlYwM5NjQ-


Top
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 5:15 pm 
Offline
User avatar
Unthought Known
 Profile

Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2005 4:49 pm
Posts: 9495
Location: Richie-Richville, Maryland
Excellent post!

In high school I fell into the category of smart-but-not-motivated. I didn't have to study to earn B's in AP classes, so why should I even bother? It wasn't until I got to college, when the parent that had been supporting me died, that I realized how stupid I had been. It was also about that time my politics began swinging to the right.

It's hypocritical of me to fault today's students for their failings... but come on. The SAT is much easier. Grade inflation is everywhere. These kids have it easy.

On a side note my Uncle teachers @ the Georgetown University, where some of the brightest (and wealthiest) kids we have go to learn. His experience would back up this article. Wealth white and black kids have a sense of entitlement and don't care so long as they get an A. Asian kids tend to be more interested in master subject matter than just getting the grades. The same is true for the rich/poor division. Poor kids realize the opportunity they have and take advantage. Rich kids know daddy will keep writing checks.

I think it is time to stop blaming the teachers and start blaming the parents. Teachers live in constant fear of violence or lawsuits. When we empower kids, we end up with powerful children. I don't think that's what we really want as a society.

_________________
you get a lifetime, that's it.


Top
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 5:37 pm 
Offline
User avatar
Supersonic
 WWW  Profile

Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2005 12:41 am
Posts: 14208
Location: Lexington, KY
Gender: Male
I will say I'm not the most motivated person in the world, but I found that I wasn't as ready for college as I thought mostly because of my school. I wouldn't really put the blame on the teachers because they were doing the best they could, but my school had shortages in both teachers and students (probably money, too). This meant that my school offered almost no college level courses. The only AP course offered my senior year was Speech.

I signed up for pre-calc twice, but was never able to take it because they never had the class so my highest math was trig. Because it was over a year and a half since I had taken a math course, I struggled with low level math in college. Instead of taking chemistry, a class that could have really prepared me for college, I had to take some retarded classes that were required credits. When it came to taking my chemistry classes here (I was a biology major), I was behind everybody in my classes.

I always thought I was a pretty smart kid. I'll admit I didn't always study, but I did do all my work and rarely missed school. Last year, my freshman year, despite studying my ass off, I struggled in several classes. I really felt retarded because everybody had had all these advanced courses as well as already having college credit.

I won't deny there are students who are bitches and don't put much into school. I would probably say that the parents have something to do with that. I will also say, though, that if there are a lot of schools like mine in this country, then there are a lot of students who don't get much prep for college.

_________________
meh


Top
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 5:42 pm 
Offline
User avatar
AnalLog
 Profile

Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 11:15 pm
Posts: 25452
Location: Under my wing like Sanford & Son
Gender: Male
broken_iris wrote:
In high school I fell into the category of smart-but-not-motivated. I didn't have to study to earn B's in AP classes, so why should I even bother?


This started to happen to me my senior year, and I'm having a rough time with college.

_________________
Now that god no longer exists, the desire for another world still remains.

Always do the right thing.


Top
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 5:50 pm 
Offline
Got Some
 Profile

Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2004 10:37 pm
Posts: 1281
Location: Tampa, FL
broken_iris wrote:
Excellent post!

In high school I fell into the category of smart-but-not-motivated. I didn't have to study to earn B's in AP classes, so why should I even bother? It wasn't until I got to college, when the parent that had been supporting me died, that I realized how stupid I had been. It was also about that time my politics began swinging to the right.

It's hypocritical of me to fault today's students for their failings... but come on. The SAT is much easier. Grade inflation is everywhere. These kids have it easy.

On a side note my Uncle teachers @ the Georgetown University, where some of the brightest (and wealthiest) kids we have go to learn. His experience would back up this article. Wealth white and black kids have a sense of entitlement and don't care so long as they get an A. Asian kids tend to be more interested in master subject matter than just getting the grades. The same is true for the rich/poor division. Poor kids realize the opportunity they have and take advantage. Rich kids know daddy will keep writing checks.

I think it is time to stop blaming the teachers and start blaming the parents. Teachers live in constant fear of violence or lawsuits. When we empower kids, we end up with powerful children. I don't think that's what we really want as a society.


The motivation to learn shouldn't have anything to do with politics. I agree with most of this article. I grew up in a middle class family and did well in high school without doing a lot of work. I got into a top, private liberal arts college and was shocked at the amount of work I had to do to keep up. I had a GPA of 1.7 after my first year and a half. If I didn't have a football scholarship with parents and coaches there to make me realize that I needed to get good grades, I might not have graduated.

The thing that made the biggest difference, though, came from inside me. I realized that there were classes that I actually enjoyed taking and enjoyed learning about. I decided the day I realized this what my major would be and that I wasn't going to take classes that I wasn't interested in. Once I "learned how to learn," the learning became infectious and everything turned around. I got good grades and enjoyed school like I never had.

I do think that teachers could do a better job trying to "connect" the kids with learning. Try to find some way to make them enjoy learning what they are learning. That is what the best teachers I had did. I would actually like to be a teacher someday, unfortunately it doesn't pay what a job in corporate america pays.

_________________
"Relaxed, but Edgy" - Ed, Raleigh, NC April, 2003


Top
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 6:46 pm 
Offline
User avatar
Got Some
 Profile

Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 2:27 pm
Posts: 1965
Location: 55344
Ilium wrote:
I do think that teachers could do a better job trying to "connect" the kids with learning. Try to find some way to make them enjoy learning what they are learning. That is what the best teachers I had did. I would actually like to be a teacher someday, unfortunately it doesn't pay what a job in corporate america pays.


how would they "connect" the students with learning? who would teach them how to do this, or would this be some innate ability that all teachers should/must have? i am not trying to rag on you, just trying to understand how this would happen. i consider myself an intelligent person (as we almost all do), but i have no idea how i could do this for just one person, let alone a classroom full of different kids every year.

the motivation to learn has to start from within, a good/great teacher can draw that out and focus it on particular subject matter, but i don't feel that truly apathetic kids can become interested only because of good teachers--or that teachers should be held responsible for such apathetic kids.

when i screw up at school, i blame myself. if i succeed, i credit myself. people can give me a push in the right direction, but ultimately it always comes down to what i desire.

i found myself whole-heartedly agreeing with the author of the article and relating to how easily i could have become one of the underachieving students he mentions. i didn't/haven't done so, but i can see how the blame game can allow lazy kids to continue their ways without ever facing the music (until they graduate from college and enter the "real world").


Top
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 7:02 pm 
Offline
User avatar
Unthought Known
 WWW  YIM  Profile

Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 10:46 pm
Posts: 9617
Location: Medford, Oregon
Gender: Male
The importance of education and a good work ethic are things people need to spend more time instilling into their kids instead of "buy more shit." It's fine with me though; kids like mine will reap the rewards in the future.

_________________
Deep below the dunes I roved
Past the rows, past the rows
Beside the acacias freshly in bloom
I sent men to their doom


Top
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:09 pm 
Offline
Got Some
 Profile

Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2004 10:37 pm
Posts: 1281
Location: Tampa, FL
ledbutter wrote:
Ilium wrote:
I do think that teachers could do a better job trying to "connect" the kids with learning. Try to find some way to make them enjoy learning what they are learning. That is what the best teachers I had did. I would actually like to be a teacher someday, unfortunately it doesn't pay what a job in corporate america pays.


how would they "connect" the students with learning? who would teach them how to do this, or would this be some innate ability that all teachers should/must have? i am not trying to rag on you, just trying to understand how this would happen. i consider myself an intelligent person (as we almost all do), but i have no idea how i could do this for just one person, let alone a classroom full of different kids every year.

the motivation to learn has to start from within, a good/great teacher can draw that out and focus it on particular subject matter, but i don't feel that truly apathetic kids can become interested only because of good teachers--or that teachers should be held responsible for such apathetic kids.

when i screw up at school, i blame myself. if i succeed, i credit myself. people can give me a push in the right direction, but ultimately it always comes down to what i desire.

i found myself whole-heartedly agreeing with the author of the article and relating to how easily i could have become one of the underachieving students he mentions. i didn't/haven't done so, but i can see how the blame game can allow lazy kids to continue their ways without ever facing the music (until they graduate from college and enter the "real world").


I agree with you, there has to be some kind of desire to learn for those teachers to connect with them or nothing the teacher does is going to have any effect. I think there are a lot of students that just need to have some motivation or inspiration.

_________________
"Relaxed, but Edgy" - Ed, Raleigh, NC April, 2003


Top
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:28 pm 
Offline
User avatar
Stone's Bitch
 WWW  YIM  Profile

Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 4:43 pm
Posts: 7633
Location: Philly Del Fia
Gender: Female
Orpheus wrote:
broken_iris wrote:
In high school I fell into the category of smart-but-not-motivated. I didn't have to study to earn B's in AP classes, so why should I even bother?


This started to happen to me my senior year, and I'm having a rough time with college.


Ditto on me too, from about 8th grade on. If I enjoyed a class, it was like being in kindergarden. I never really had to TRY to get an A, I just had to be interested enough to care. I was especially disillusioned with math teachers who assumed that because it was MATH, I didn't need any extra help for my dyslexia. (it has always been at it's worst in alegebra and such where there is a lot of letter/number mixing). Being so easily dismissed was not motivation to prove myself, only to stay awake just enough to pass. So in the end it wasn't all me - when i asked for help, the teachers really did drop the ball as well.

_________________
Image


Top
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 10:40 am 
Offline
User avatar
Supersonic
 Profile

Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2004 2:43 am
Posts: 10694
Maybe it's thefailed work ethic of todays kids.

Impossible. No way.

_________________
Its a Wonderful Life


Top
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 2:25 pm 
Offline
User avatar
Stone's Bitch
 WWW  YIM  Profile

Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 4:43 pm
Posts: 7633
Location: Philly Del Fia
Gender: Female
LittleWing wrote:
Maybe it's thefailed work ethic of todays kids.

Impossible. No way.


Please please tell me that was sarcasam

_________________
Image


Top
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 4:57 pm 
Offline
User avatar
Black Metal Hero
 Profile

Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 11:04 pm
Posts: 39920
Gender: Male
I don't particularly buy that shit. When I had a good math teacher passed the class with ease, when I didn't I failed half the time.


Top
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 5:23 pm 
Offline
User avatar
too drunk to moderate properly
 WWW  Profile

Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 7:19 pm
Posts: 39068
Location: Chapel Hill, NC, USA
Gender: Male
At what point does it become a societal problem? I mean, one student fails, sure, blame that kid. All the students fail ... well, there's another factor at play.

_________________
"Though some may think there should be a separation between art/music and politics, it should be reinforced that art can be a form of nonviolent protest." - e.v.


Top
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 6:34 pm 
Offline
User avatar
Global Moderator
 Profile

Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2004 4:02 am
Posts: 44183
Location: New York
Gender: Male
B wrote:
At what point does it become a societal problem? I mean, one student fails, sure, blame that kid. All the students fail ... well, there's another factor at play.


As is the case with most problems, there is plenty of blame to go around at all levels.

Teachers aren't paid enough, class sizes are too big, the best people don't go into teaching, parents don't get invovled, and education has become a commodity where you are essentially paying for the certificate you need to advance to the best college you can get into where you will get the certificate necessary to get a decent job. Actually learning has nothing to do with anything. All these things are true. To privelage one cause over another doesn't help much.

_________________
"Better the occasional faults of a Government that lives in a spirit of charity than the consistent omissions of a Government frozen in the ice of its own indifference."--FDR

The perfect gift for certain occasions


Top
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 14 posts ] 

Board index » Word on the Street... » News & Debate


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
It is currently Thu Dec 04, 2025 11:47 am