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 Post subject: What is each albums major flaw? Part 1: TEN
PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 5:34 am 
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This is going to be a multi part series for each album. We'll move on to the next album when it seems like it's been discussed enough.

Well, yes. We love Pearl Jam. We love their albums. We have fun debating what songs are better, what albums are better and so on.
I was thinking about No Code recently and how I love each song on there from beginning to end, and yet Vitalogy is actually my favorite album, but it has several songs I dont really care for. I came to realise what the flaw for me was in No Code. There is no song on there that really stands out above the rest and says 'I am the standout track of possibly the greatest pearl jam album'. Instead, it's a collection of REALLY GOOD songs that lacks the final punch to make it outstanding.

Obviously, everyone has their take. So that got me to thinking about what I thought the single major flaw was on each album of our favorite band, here :)

Ten. What can be wrong with one of the best selling records of all time? The music is full of energy, the lyrics are deep yet accessible, and just about everything works perfectly. However, the production is way off base with the feel of the music. Sometimes drowned in reverb or the feeling of "too much production" takes away from what should be a hard edge live rock & roll feel. Instead it sounds like all the band members are playing in different rooms and at different times.
There are a few songs that I think the production actually does seem to benefit. Garden and Oceans seem to do well when drowned in a little of that production, and get an added dreamy feel/quality to them that compliments them well...where it really just doesnt work on the other tracks.

So, what do you think? Do you see that as the major flaw in Ten? Is there another major flaw that makes Ten less than it could be?


Last edited by Buggy on Tue Feb 28, 2006 6:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 5:37 am 
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Nice thread idea

I think you are spot on with Ten Buggy. The remixes on RVM demonstrate that. Alive was made even better and once and black had new life breathed into them.

Good call on Garden and Oceans (esp. Garden). If I could pick one more song for them to remix it would be porch.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 5:58 am 
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i actually like the ten versions better than the remixed ones. but im not sure which verison of even flow i like better, if i decided on the newer version itd only be because of dave a.
i dont think there are many faults at all on this album as i believe it to be pretty much a masterpiece. nothing really pops to mind and i wouldnt really change anything given the chance

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 6:05 am 
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yeah, the production is horrible and i think lyrically it is easily their worst album. also not a fan of eddies voice on this one.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 6:11 am 
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Cal Varnsen wrote:
i think lyrically it is easily their worst album. also not a fan of eddies voice on this one.


sometimes I think we're just not listening to the same album. I think I'd only put Vitalogy ahead of ten in terms of its lyrics. And ed's best vocal performance of all time might be release

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 6:14 am 
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Well for a first album I thought it was f'in' amazing.Who cares about production when the songs are,in my opinion,brilliant.Remember,it's of it's time.15 years ago,friends.Compared to Nevermind the production is excellant.The one flaw would be ....I can't think of one.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 6:16 am 
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stip wrote:
Cal Varnsen wrote:
i think lyrically it is easily their worst album. also not a fan of eddies voice on this one.


sometimes I think we're just not listening to the same album. I think I'd only put Vitalogy ahead of ten in terms of its lyrics. And ed's best vocal performance of all time might be release


I'm pretty much with stip here. I'm a big fan of Ed's lyrics on Ten, and his voice is pretty much top form. Release, Why Go, Porch...those seem to really showcase his vocals rather well.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 6:39 am 
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There are a few things that I see as flaws, retrospectively...
For one, I can't even listen to the version of Even Flow on Ten... Krusen sounds like he has lead weights strapped to his arms... such a slow, boring version... was glad to see the single version included on RVM
Also, I'm partial to Breath and State and would have loved to see them either included on Ten somewhere, or at least saved for Vs...
The early live versions of these songs were so much more powerful which leads me to agree with those who have already mentioned the overproduction of this album... Vs felt so much more natural, more raw, more energetic... face it... Vs was just a better album all together...

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 6:44 am 
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Ten is an incredible "big bang" for a band, to arrive with an album that was so strong, at such a time was unbelievable. All the songs covered so much of the spectrum. i'd have to disagree with the problem somebody had with eddie's voice. if there's a flaw it could be the "production" sound of it, but you definitely have to consider the '90s. I didn't really like the liner notes, but i can't knock an album for liner notes (i'm looking at radiohead's recent work here as well).

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 6:54 am 
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Cal Varnsen wrote:
yeah, the production is horrible and i think lyrically it is easily their worst album. also not a fan of eddies voice on this one.


unfortunatly many popular bands these days have a lead singer that like eds voice way to much from ten :lol:


i dont listen to ten much anymore, and when i make my many compilations i usually only pick 1 song from ten just because, or i use Bsides instead, but i havent figured out why, its probably because i have had the album for somehting like 13 or 14 years and used to listen to it almost every day so i may just be wore out on the songs. i have no real problem with the production so i dont think that is it.

so i would say that the biggest problem with ten for me is that i have heard it way way way to much, and it really doesnt help that the only radio station that plays PJ only ever plays jeremy, black, alive and evenflow.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 7:00 am 
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just a question about the thread, can we include SOLAT, Yellow Ledbetter, Wash, Drop the Leash and Footsteps with TEN? or is it just the released albums with Leash on Vs., Brain of J on Yield and the other three not until Lost Dogs (leaving solat non-existent)? I'm just curious b/c including those 5 songs with ten makes the album/sessions even more remarkable and as near flawless as any album the band has

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 7:08 am 
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Cal Varnsen wrote:
yeah, the production is horrible and i think lyrically it is easily their worst album. also not a fan of eddies voice on this one.


I agree with all this, and I'll add I just don't think the songs are that good. There are some golden moments on the album, but they are few and far between. Except for Release, I wouldn't deem any of the songs to be "great." The rest range from poor to very good. A lot of the playing just sounds like a rehashed combo of classic and punk that comes off horribly.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 7:11 am 
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EllisEamos wrote:
just a question about the thread, can we include SOLAT, Yellow Ledbetter, Wash, Drop the Leash and Footsteps with TEN?


Nope. We're strictly talking about the albums, as they are, and were, released.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 7:14 am 
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ok just saw buggy's post, but does mirror/merkinball count as an album/session to find flaws in?

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 7:21 am 
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EllisEamos wrote:
ok just saw buggy's post, but does mirror/merkinball count as an album/session to find flaws in?


:offtopic:

Let's go down that road when we get there ;)
I'm pretty sure we will just be addressing full length studio releases by Pearl Jam.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 7:30 am 
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I'm trying to think of flaws besides the obvious production flaws.

The only thing I can come up with is the master/slave snippet before Once. It would have been better to just kick straight into Once like it does on greatest hits. I still love master/slave though.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 8:08 am 
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you have to remember with the production that this was just coming out of the eighties when pretty much every album's production sounded like this

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 8:12 am 
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fishbob wrote:
you have to remember with the production that this was just coming out of the eighties when pretty much every album's production sounded like this


Most every pop album did. Given their punk rock roots, I'm sure the band was well aware of plenty of albums that didn't suffer from overproduction.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 8:13 am 
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- bad lyrics. 'evenflow...thoughts arrive like butterflies makes my cringe.' it has jeremy, which is ok, but the better lyrics are on release and black. but why go, evenflow, alive...deep. bad stuff. i like the music to garden, but the lyrics aren't very strong. is a garden of stone a garden where nothing grows? who knows.
- the music is meh. how many times have we heard the solos mccready played on here? it lacks all originality. and it's easy. a friend of mine who's really into music and teaches guitar says it's pretty easy to learn mccreadys work on ten. the other stuff he's put on other albums is much more layered. this is just simple riffs, progressions.
- the drumming. wow, krusen should've never been hired.
- eddie's vocals. they're good if you enjoy fake vox. how much production went into his vocals to make them sound as fake as possible?
- stone and mike's interplay. on this album there's such little interplay between such great guitarists. the last few albums you've heard them sound so good together. on this album they sound so far apart, as if it's so obvious they recorded in seperate rooms without even talking.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 8:28 am 
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corduroy_blazer wrote:
- bad lyrics. 'evenflow...thoughts arrive like butterflies makes my cringe.' it has jeremy, which is ok, but the better lyrics are on release and black. but why go, evenflow, alive...deep. bad stuff. i like the music to garden, but the lyrics aren't very strong. is a garden of stone a garden where nothing grows? who knows.
- the music is meh. how many times have we heard the solos mccready played on here? it lacks all originality. and it's easy. a friend of mine who's really into music and teaches guitar says it's pretty easy to learn mccreadys work on ten. the other stuff he's put on other albums is much more layered. this is just simple riffs, progressions.
- the drumming. wow, krusen should've never been hired.
- eddie's vocals. they're good if you enjoy fake vox. how much production went into his vocals to make them sound as fake as possible?
- stone and mike's interplay. on this album there's such little interplay between such great guitarists. the last few albums you've heard them sound so good together. on this album they sound so far apart, as if it's so obvious they recorded in seperate rooms without even talking.

:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO!!!!!
i especially disagree with the bit about mike. just because it may not be hard, doesnt mean its not GOOD! thats why the alive solo is so goddamn great, because its using simple parts, but structured so well and so perfectly to the song. thats why this album is so good, it just fits. thats why albums like yield and riot act dont sound right, because they simply dont FIT together, its just bits and bobs shoved together to make a song. the only song i can say suffers from this on ten is probably deep but even then its in a different way

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